7 ms·

My million dollar domain hobby

54 points by kens 6y ago

sarmasamosarma 6y ago
Guck this guy!
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
jasongill 6y ago
This somewhat mirrors my own experience starting domaining about 15 years ago. I've always stuck with dot coms and just picked interesting suffixes - domains ending with cloud were very hot for a while. I do disagree about sites like Sedo not being a good place to sell - when people search for domains in their registrar, the similar results from sedo and others will appear in the list as available (at a higher price of course). Just having a landing page will simply list the domain as taken, so your potential buyers have to really want the name to contact you. Basically, don't rely on type in traffic alone - list buy it now prices on sedo and you'll move domains with ease
imdsm 6y ago
Haha! I actually wanted starboard.io for a project a little while back and ended up perusing through your domains. Frustrating when they're taken but I appreciated, then and now, how open you are with your portfolio.
ktpsns 6y ago
I can understand why this is an amusing hobby. However, let's be honest: This kind of activity is mafia-style, protection money for blocking the system. I can understand why domain registrars have fees, because they run infrastructure. But people like this guy speculate. Speculation on land is one thing, but speculation on internet assets just render big parts of the domain system useless.
- instance 6y ago
  Well, it is a free and largely unregulated market, so speculators can speculate as much as they want. When Google launched the dev tld they discouraged this by making special domains premium, i.e. much more costly to acquire. Ideas like that could change the market, but who know's if that's ever going to happen (for tlds such as .com).
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- timeeater 6y ago
  If you need a domain, you can buy it from him. It's better than all unused domains that are being squatted on for decades. Edit: is there a .socialism TLD already, that is unsquattable, and you only get access if you are deemed worthy by the committee? Seriously, lighten up, people. And if you don't like the system, create a better one.
  - m1gu3l 6y ago
    what’s the difference between him and the squatters? nice ui and a friendly attitude?
    - imdsm 6y ago
      Pretty much. At least the squatted pages aren't the internet equivalent of floating plastic in the sea.
    - timeeater 6y ago
      Yup, taking the friction out of the process. You can also see at a glance what interesting domains are available. Edit: another benefit is that you can sell your domain to him, if you have uselessly squatted on it for years.
rtb 6y ago
No mention of the ethics of this, except in a single dismissive comment? He is deliberately land-grabbing domain names in the hope that he gets in the way of legitimate users enough that they pay him off? Scummy. People try to distinguish between domain squatting and "domaining" by saying that the former is "bad faith" but the latter is not, but I don't really see any difference. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cybersquatting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cybersquatting https://www.godaddy.com/garage/what-is-domain-squatting-and-what-can-you-do-about-it/ https://www.godaddy.com/garage/what-is-domain-squatting-and-... I hope that ICANN release enough new TLDs that this problem just goes away by dilution and the "domainers" lose all the money they "invested" in this scummy practice.
- blunte 6y ago
  I don't know the guy, but we have plenty of high profile individuals in tech (not all of whom started FB), who have a very different or diminished sense of ethics. I guess it's just shocking to see someone stand up and proudly display their activities.
  - me_me_me 6y ago
    Some people think that if something isn't illegal then it must be morally good. I am not sure if that coping mechanism or limited perspective on how life works. Amazon et al. don't steel money, they legally offshores them to tax havens. Illegal? no. Immoral, yeah I'd say so. But at least they don't publicly gloat about it.
    - Cthulhu_ 6y ago
      I think one factor is that the guy is an 'honest' trader, and doesn't squat on a domain to fill it with scummy links, bitcoin miners, malware, porn, scams, or impersonating other websites. More a straight 'this domain is for sale'. Morally bad has varying degrees as well, and if this guy didn't scalp the domains, someone else would have. Not saying the guy is a good guy, but there's worse ones out there.
      - 6y ago
blunte 6y ago
This hurts potentially legitimate users for the benefit of one person. Of course it's nothing new, as there have been people doing this with domains and practically every other resource humans have ever needed. You could say, "Well if I didn't do it, someone else would." Indeed that's probably true, but it doesn't make this any less bad for collective humanity. There are also fascinating stories of the past of how spammers (legally and sometimes illegally) got around rules and blockers and made bank.
- bluesign 6y ago
  You say "This hurts potentially legitimate users", someone else can say "this is stealing from registrars". There is no single answer to this. Actually this is the definition of trade ( mostly stock markets work in this way too )
dri_ft 6y ago
> I like to keep my hobbies cheap and cheerful [...] Just a CSV file, ssh whois, and my old friend sleep() to honor the rate limits. 'Honor' is a funny word for your treatment of the rate limits you wrote a distributed crawler to circumvent.
- blunte 6y ago
  I also doubt people searching for an available domain name for their new business would find his hobby "cheerful".
  - Cthulhu_ 6y ago
    Or that spending thousands on domains is 'cheap'.
wheybags 6y ago
> Buyers love to concoct complicated schemes. > ... > They want to discuss the ethics of domaining. You mean call you out as a scumbag scalper? Because that's what you are. All you do is drive up the price for the actual users. People like you are literally why we can't have nice things. Get a new hobby.
sgdesign 6y ago
This reminds me of my own million dollar hobby where I sell a portfolio of old dishrags which are, by my own estimation, worth a couple millions altogether. No, I haven’t sold any yet, why do you ask?
donmcronald 6y ago
> I cautiously created an account with Anguilla, nervously wired them a token amount of money, and started experimenting with EPP. > Most of the the action took place in the first 45 seconds. Total cost: $2,000. Using the .app TLD sales for valuation is smart, but the majority of the scheme boils down to 1) have money, 2) buy limited supply property, 3) sell at inflated prices once the supply is limited enough. It always shocks me how brilliant rich people think they are when they corner the supply on something while the only thing stopping normal people is a lack of money.
- timeeater 6y ago
  Not that much money, and you can also borrow money if you are not rich. It always shocks me how ready poor people are with their excuses. If you think it is so simple to make money, prove it by doing it. You claim you know of a guaranteed way to make money, you only need some starting money. If you are so sure, and your idea is so good, you should be able to convince somebody to lend you the money to do it. Incidentally, do you know any "limited supply properties" somebody with money should buy at this very moment, to get even richer?
  - donmcronald 6y ago
    > You claim you know of a guaranteed way to make money, you only need some starting money. If you are so sure, and your idea is so good, you should be able to convince somebody to lend you the money to do it. I didn't say I know of a guaranteed way to make money. I was saying that domain squatting isn't novel or difficult or some kind of genius idea. The primary driver of success in the domainer market is having a big pool of capital and the rest is easy enough that if someone has the capital for it they're not going to cut someone else in. They might hire a domainer as an employee, but they're not going to be looking for partners. > It always shocks me how ready poor people are with their excuses. The person that wrote this article is holding ~200 .ai domains at a cost of ~$70/year at Namecheap. That's $14k per year. The federal minimum wage in the USA is ~$15k per year ($7.25/hour). Why don't you lay out a financial plan for me where a person making $15k per year can hold a $14k per year .ai portfolio?
pettycashstash2 6y ago
Why all the negative comments? Kudos to the owner of the domains and seeing the opportunity. He learned by doing. This could have been a complete bust for him. Great write up. Thanks for sharing. I learned something new today.
- Lammy 6y ago
  > I learned something new today. What, that rent-seeking is profitable? That's hardly something to celebrate.
  - pettycashstash2 6y ago
    I was intrigued by the technical aspects of the enterprise he engaged in, but I do appreciate your perspective.
quelsolaar 6y ago
> Complexity kills transactions. This is so true! I wish I learned this earlier in life.
Lammy 6y ago
I wonder what it's like to be able to casually throw around "a few thousand dollars" for your new domain-squatting hobby despite being between jobs.
- timeeater 6y ago
  Save some money to find out?
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
ykevinator 6y ago
Arbitrage is not evil, it's just not noble. Most of us don't do noble work.
rdgthree 6y ago
This is an interesting topic for me because I hold a handful of domain names (10-20) that I'm not using and have often had this internal debate. I have them because they're ideal names for a few side projects I've been considering building now or in the future, and I hold on to them because I want to make sure I have them if inspiration hits for any of the given projects. I'm sure many of you own some "aspirational" domain names like this, and while I realize it's a much different scale, why is it functionally different than the OP? Is there a reasonable quantity of unused domain names for an individual to own before it becomes unethical? I wouldn't want to hold a domain from someone else who wanted it in good faith and was going to use it (like I hope to, eventually), but if I want a good domain name for a product I'm building in the future, I have to play the game a bit ahead of time.
- donmcronald 6y ago
  > I'm sure many of you own some "aspirational" domain names like this, and while I realize it's a much different scale, why is it functionally different than the OP? It's squatters that have created the situation where people feel the need to hold on to domains they might use because the second you let them drop they'll be snapped up by a squatter if they're even half decent.
XCSme 6y ago
Since when are .io and .ai domains considered premium? Users are still used to only typing .com, .net or .org (or their local country TLD).
sairamkunala 6y ago
.app names list by some other seller - https://offbyonenames.com/ https://offbyonenames.com/
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

54 points by kens 6y ago

sarmasamosarma 6y ago

Guck this guy!

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

jasongill 6y ago

This somewhat mirrors my own experience starting domaining about 15 years ago. I've always stuck with dot coms and just picked interesting suffixes - domains ending with cloud were very hot for a while. I do disagree about sites like Sedo not being a good place to sell - when people search for domains in their registrar, the similar results from sedo and others will appear in the list as available (at a higher price of course). Just having a landing page will simply list the domain as taken, so your potential buyers have to really want the name to contact you. Basically, don't rely on type in traffic alone - list buy it now prices on sedo and you'll move domains with ease

imdsm 6y ago

Haha! I actually wanted starboard.io for a project a little while back and ended up perusing through your domains. Frustrating when they're taken but I appreciated, then and now, how open you are with your portfolio.

ktpsns 6y ago

I can understand why this is an amusing hobby. However, let's be honest: This kind of activity is mafia-style, protection money for blocking the system. I can understand why domain registrars have fees, because they run infrastructure. But people like this guy speculate. Speculation on land is one thing, but speculation on internet assets just render big parts of the domain system useless.

instance 6y ago
Well, it is a free and largely unregulated market, so speculators can speculate as much as they want. When Google launched the dev tld they discouraged this by making special domains premium, i.e. much more costly to acquire. Ideas like that could change the market, but who know's if that's ever going to happen (for tlds such as .com).
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
timeeater 6y ago
If you need a domain, you can buy it from him. It's better than all unused domains that are being squatted on for decades. Edit: is there a .socialism TLD already, that is unsquattable, and you only get access if you are deemed worthy by the committee? Seriously, lighten up, people. And if you don't like the system, create a better one.
- m1gu3l 6y ago
  what’s the difference between him and the squatters? nice ui and a friendly attitude?
  - imdsm 6y ago
    Pretty much. At least the squatted pages aren't the internet equivalent of floating plastic in the sea.
  - timeeater 6y ago
    Yup, taking the friction out of the process. You can also see at a glance what interesting domains are available. Edit: another benefit is that you can sell your domain to him, if you have uselessly squatted on it for years.

rtb 6y ago

No mention of the ethics of this, except in a single dismissive comment? He is deliberately land-grabbing domain names in the hope that he gets in the way of legitimate users enough that they pay him off? Scummy. People try to distinguish between domain squatting and "domaining" by saying that the former is "bad faith" but the latter is not, but I don't really see any difference. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cybersquatting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cybersquatting https://www.godaddy.com/garage/what-is-domain-squatting-and-what-can-you-do-about-it/ https://www.godaddy.com/garage/what-is-domain-squatting-and-... I hope that ICANN release enough new TLDs that this problem just goes away by dilution and the "domainers" lose all the money they "invested" in this scummy practice.

blunte 6y ago
I don't know the guy, but we have plenty of high profile individuals in tech (not all of whom started FB), who have a very different or diminished sense of ethics. I guess it's just shocking to see someone stand up and proudly display their activities.
- me_me_me 6y ago
  Some people think that if something isn't illegal then it must be morally good. I am not sure if that coping mechanism or limited perspective on how life works. Amazon et al. don't steel money, they legally offshores them to tax havens. Illegal? no. Immoral, yeah I'd say so. But at least they don't publicly gloat about it.
  - Cthulhu_ 6y ago
    I think one factor is that the guy is an 'honest' trader, and doesn't squat on a domain to fill it with scummy links, bitcoin miners, malware, porn, scams, or impersonating other websites. More a straight 'this domain is for sale'. Morally bad has varying degrees as well, and if this guy didn't scalp the domains, someone else would have. Not saying the guy is a good guy, but there's worse ones out there.
    - 6y ago

blunte 6y ago

This hurts potentially legitimate users for the benefit of one person. Of course it's nothing new, as there have been people doing this with domains and practically every other resource humans have ever needed. You could say, "Well if I didn't do it, someone else would." Indeed that's probably true, but it doesn't make this any less bad for collective humanity. There are also fascinating stories of the past of how spammers (legally and sometimes illegally) got around rules and blockers and made bank.

bluesign 6y ago
You say "This hurts potentially legitimate users", someone else can say "this is stealing from registrars". There is no single answer to this. Actually this is the definition of trade ( mostly stock markets work in this way too )

dri_ft 6y ago

> I like to keep my hobbies cheap and cheerful [...] Just a CSV file, ssh whois, and my old friend sleep() to honor the rate limits. 'Honor' is a funny word for your treatment of the rate limits you wrote a distributed crawler to circumvent.

blunte 6y ago
I also doubt people searching for an available domain name for their new business would find his hobby "cheerful".
- Cthulhu_ 6y ago
  Or that spending thousands on domains is 'cheap'.

wheybags 6y ago

> Buyers love to concoct complicated schemes. > ... > They want to discuss the ethics of domaining. You mean call you out as a scumbag scalper? Because that's what you are. All you do is drive up the price for the actual users. People like you are literally why we can't have nice things. Get a new hobby.

sgdesign 6y ago

This reminds me of my own million dollar hobby where I sell a portfolio of old dishrags which are, by my own estimation, worth a couple millions altogether. No, I haven’t sold any yet, why do you ask?

donmcronald 6y ago

> I cautiously created an account with Anguilla, nervously wired them a token amount of money, and started experimenting with EPP. > Most of the the action took place in the first 45 seconds. Total cost: $2,000. Using the .app TLD sales for valuation is smart, but the majority of the scheme boils down to 1) have money, 2) buy limited supply property, 3) sell at inflated prices once the supply is limited enough. It always shocks me how brilliant rich people think they are when they corner the supply on something while the only thing stopping normal people is a lack of money.

timeeater 6y ago
Not that much money, and you can also borrow money if you are not rich. It always shocks me how ready poor people are with their excuses. If you think it is so simple to make money, prove it by doing it. You claim you know of a guaranteed way to make money, you only need some starting money. If you are so sure, and your idea is so good, you should be able to convince somebody to lend you the money to do it. Incidentally, do you know any "limited supply properties" somebody with money should buy at this very moment, to get even richer?
- donmcronald 6y ago
  > You claim you know of a guaranteed way to make money, you only need some starting money. If you are so sure, and your idea is so good, you should be able to convince somebody to lend you the money to do it. I didn't say I know of a guaranteed way to make money. I was saying that domain squatting isn't novel or difficult or some kind of genius idea. The primary driver of success in the domainer market is having a big pool of capital and the rest is easy enough that if someone has the capital for it they're not going to cut someone else in. They might hire a domainer as an employee, but they're not going to be looking for partners. > It always shocks me how ready poor people are with their excuses. The person that wrote this article is holding ~200 .ai domains at a cost of ~$70/year at Namecheap. That's $14k per year. The federal minimum wage in the USA is ~$15k per year ($7.25/hour). Why don't you lay out a financial plan for me where a person making $15k per year can hold a $14k per year .ai portfolio?

pettycashstash2 6y ago

Why all the negative comments? Kudos to the owner of the domains and seeing the opportunity. He learned by doing. This could have been a complete bust for him. Great write up. Thanks for sharing. I learned something new today.

Lammy 6y ago
> I learned something new today. What, that rent-seeking is profitable? That's hardly something to celebrate.
- pettycashstash2 6y ago
  I was intrigued by the technical aspects of the enterprise he engaged in, but I do appreciate your perspective.

quelsolaar 6y ago

> Complexity kills transactions. This is so true! I wish I learned this earlier in life.

Lammy 6y ago

I wonder what it's like to be able to casually throw around "a few thousand dollars" for your new domain-squatting hobby despite being between jobs.

timeeater 6y ago
Save some money to find out?

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

ykevinator 6y ago

Arbitrage is not evil, it's just not noble. Most of us don't do noble work.

rdgthree 6y ago

This is an interesting topic for me because I hold a handful of domain names (10-20) that I'm not using and have often had this internal debate. I have them because they're ideal names for a few side projects I've been considering building now or in the future, and I hold on to them because I want to make sure I have them if inspiration hits for any of the given projects. I'm sure many of you own some "aspirational" domain names like this, and while I realize it's a much different scale, why is it functionally different than the OP? Is there a reasonable quantity of unused domain names for an individual to own before it becomes unethical? I wouldn't want to hold a domain from someone else who wanted it in good faith and was going to use it (like I hope to, eventually), but if I want a good domain name for a product I'm building in the future, I have to play the game a bit ahead of time.

donmcronald 6y ago
> I'm sure many of you own some "aspirational" domain names like this, and while I realize it's a much different scale, why is it functionally different than the OP? It's squatters that have created the situation where people feel the need to hold on to domains they might use because the second you let them drop they'll be snapped up by a squatter if they're even half decent.

XCSme 6y ago

Since when are .io and .ai domains considered premium? Users are still used to only typing .com, .net or .org (or their local country TLD).

sairamkunala 6y ago

.app names list by some other seller - https://offbyonenames.com/ https://offbyonenames.com/

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]