3 ms·

Do not point a gun at something you do not intend to shoot. There is no reason to draw your weapon in this context. Danger should be determined from context cl

Do not point a gun at something you do not intend to shoot. There is no reason to draw your weapon in this context. Danger should be determined from context clues, not defaulted to the highest priority. There is no reason in hell you can ever justify pointing a weapon at a child. Period. That goes beyond bad policing and into disrespecting guns and plain stupidity. This is someone’s home not a war zone.

giantg2 6y ago
How about gang members under the age of 18? It would be great if we had good video of how the gun was pointed and where the people were. It was likely only pointed up the stairs in a "low-ready" manner and not aimed. But we will never know. How about defiantly refusing to open the door and a past conviction for assaulting an officer as context clues?
- yibg 6y ago
  I honest would like to know, from your perspective when should a police officer NOT have gun drawn? Seems like you think there is danger lurking every where, so should cops just go around with assault rifles at the ready all the damn time?
  - giantg2 6y ago
    I didn't say guns should be drawn all the time. Someone's overly emotional and absolute statement incorrectly stated that guns should never be pointed a children. The scenario we are discussing is building searches, which are high risk and the behavior was appropriate in this example. Not to mention there is no evidence showing the guns being pointed directly at anyone.
- fredophile 6y ago
  We have a video its at the very top of the link. At least three pistols were drawn by officers entering the home. The first officer doesn't draw his weapon until after interacting with the suspect, being told her husband and children are home, and then entering the home. If she has a previous conviction for assaulting an officer that wouldn't matter since she was already removed from the situation at this point. The first and third pistols I saw were pointed at the floor the whole time. The second officer has his pistol aimed at the top of the stairs as he is walking towards the bottom of the stairway.
  - giantg2 6y ago
    "We have a video its at the very top of the link. ... The second officer has his pistol aimed at the top of the stairs as he is walking towards the bottom of the stairway." And like my comment said, we don't see any people at the top of the stairs, so we don't know if it was aimed at anyone or not. Even if there are people up there, we can't tell if the gun is aimed at anyone or pointed "low" (into the top few stairs) or at a higher angle to aim at a person as it's only a 10 degree or so difference in angle and we don't see the full scene. All we can do is make assumptions, which isn't helpful.
    - fredophile 6y ago
      Based on the actions of the people we do see I don't think there was anyone visible at the top of the stairs. However, the reason for having a weapon up when doing corner drills or stair drills isn't because you're pointing at someone already in view, it's to have the weapon pointing at someone who comes into view. His weapon is up because he thinks someone might either step into view or become visible as he continues to move. He is the only LEO I see not pointing his weapon at the floor the whole time so his actions stand out to me. He may have been following his SOPs perfectly. I don't think this is an appropriate SOP for LEOs to use in this situation. I don't think this case called for having weapons drawn at all. My view is that this SOP is likely to contribute to unnecessary civilian injuries and deaths.
      - giantg2 6y ago
        Usually you have the gun up, but not aimed up (eg at the top few stairs but not above them), otherwise you're blocking your view of threats that are crouched or prone if you have the gun fully up and aimed at a standing adult torso level. Why wouldn't this be appropriate when clearing a building with unknown threats when dealing with an uncooperative person? The only way it leads to unnecessary injuries is if the officers don't make a proper identification of a threat/non-threat, which can happen with the gun in other positions too. This type of search wouldn't have been necessary anyways if she had complied immediately. They would have normally asked everyone to exit before doing their search, but once the suspect has been uncooperative and they gain entry they need to be proactive about the search to avoid evidence destruction or suspect fortifications given the suspect's actions. Now had she opened the door quickly, I would agree that the actions would not have been appropriate because you're supposed to clear the building by voluntary means first. In this case, the suspect's family declined that voluntary option by not complying.

giantg2 6y ago

How about gang members under the age of 18? It would be great if we had good video of how the gun was pointed and where the people were. It was likely only pointed up the stairs in a "low-ready" manner and not aimed. But we will never know. How about defiantly refusing to open the door and a past conviction for assaulting an officer as context clues?

yibg 6y ago
I honest would like to know, from your perspective when should a police officer NOT have gun drawn? Seems like you think there is danger lurking every where, so should cops just go around with assault rifles at the ready all the damn time?
- giantg2 6y ago
  I didn't say guns should be drawn all the time. Someone's overly emotional and absolute statement incorrectly stated that guns should never be pointed a children. The scenario we are discussing is building searches, which are high risk and the behavior was appropriate in this example. Not to mention there is no evidence showing the guns being pointed directly at anyone.
fredophile 6y ago
We have a video its at the very top of the link. At least three pistols were drawn by officers entering the home. The first officer doesn't draw his weapon until after interacting with the suspect, being told her husband and children are home, and then entering the home. If she has a previous conviction for assaulting an officer that wouldn't matter since she was already removed from the situation at this point. The first and third pistols I saw were pointed at the floor the whole time. The second officer has his pistol aimed at the top of the stairs as he is walking towards the bottom of the stairway.
- giantg2 6y ago
  "We have a video its at the very top of the link. ... The second officer has his pistol aimed at the top of the stairs as he is walking towards the bottom of the stairway." And like my comment said, we don't see any people at the top of the stairs, so we don't know if it was aimed at anyone or not. Even if there are people up there, we can't tell if the gun is aimed at anyone or pointed "low" (into the top few stairs) or at a higher angle to aim at a person as it's only a 10 degree or so difference in angle and we don't see the full scene. All we can do is make assumptions, which isn't helpful.
  - fredophile 6y ago
    Based on the actions of the people we do see I don't think there was anyone visible at the top of the stairs. However, the reason for having a weapon up when doing corner drills or stair drills isn't because you're pointing at someone already in view, it's to have the weapon pointing at someone who comes into view. His weapon is up because he thinks someone might either step into view or become visible as he continues to move. He is the only LEO I see not pointing his weapon at the floor the whole time so his actions stand out to me. He may have been following his SOPs perfectly. I don't think this is an appropriate SOP for LEOs to use in this situation. I don't think this case called for having weapons drawn at all. My view is that this SOP is likely to contribute to unnecessary civilian injuries and deaths.
    - giantg2 6y ago
      Usually you have the gun up, but not aimed up (eg at the top few stairs but not above them), otherwise you're blocking your view of threats that are crouched or prone if you have the gun fully up and aimed at a standing adult torso level. Why wouldn't this be appropriate when clearing a building with unknown threats when dealing with an uncooperative person? The only way it leads to unnecessary injuries is if the officers don't make a proper identification of a threat/non-threat, which can happen with the gun in other positions too. This type of search wouldn't have been necessary anyways if she had complied immediately. They would have normally asked everyone to exit before doing their search, but once the suspect has been uncooperative and they gain entry they need to be proactive about the search to avoid evidence destruction or suspect fortifications given the suspect's actions. Now had she opened the door quickly, I would agree that the actions would not have been appropriate because you're supposed to clear the building by voluntary means first. In this case, the suspect's family declined that voluntary option by not complying.