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Sure would have been nice if all of that had been co-ordinated with astronomers so we wouldn't have to impose the negative externality of not being able to obse

Sure would have been nice if all of that had been co-ordinated with astronomers so we wouldn't have to impose the negative externality of not being able to observe the heavens anymore as a price paid for faster internet.

nitrogen 6y ago
...for a little while after sunset, and mostly while a new launch of sats is deploying.
- Baeocystin 6y ago
  Eh... There's a little more to it than that. https://skyandtelescope.org/astronomy-news/starlink-satellites-astronomy/ https://skyandtelescope.org/astronomy-news/starlink-satellit... has more details. My personal opinion is that access to the global internet is important enough to justify the light pollution in the night sky. But I understand that not everyone thinks so, and regardless, steps to limit the constellations' impact are important to take.
  - threeseed 6y ago
    I would love to be corrected but Starlink doesn't seem like a solution for true global internet. As you can see in this diagram which is the approved ground stations for Australia: https://i.redd.it/f7u55u7edbz51.jpg https://i.redd.it/f7u55u7edbz51.jpg It is really only competing with existing internet service providers and likely will not be profitable to roll out to even the rest of Australia let alone places like Africa.
    - centimeter 6y ago
      I believe the eventual goal is to add satellite-to-satellite links, to permit routing to more remote areas (albeit with increased latency).
      - threeseed 6y ago
        Be curious how feasible this is in practice. a) None of the launched satellites will be able to support it. b) ESA Sentinel laser link is only getting bandwidth of between 1.8-7.2 Gbit/s which isn't all that much.
        Baeocystin 6y ago
        According to this link (short on details, unfortunately) at least a couple of the sats currently in orbit have laser hardware functional enough to test with. I'm looking forward to hearing more about what kind of bandwidth they're expecting. https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-starlink-space-lasers-first-orbital-test/ https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-starlink-space-lasers-first...
        m4rtink 6y ago
        For the record the Iridium satellite phone network has been using (radio) inter-satellite links from 1990s.
    - ericd 6y ago
      They're already testing satellite-to-satellite, which for long hops, has the potential to actually be faster than terrestrial fiber, since light is significantly faster in vacuum. Access won't be limited to those near ground stations.
fasteddie31003 6y ago
Why can't astronomers have algorithms that selectively throw away data from pixels that are known to have a satellite or a plane in then? It seems like a problem that software can solve. Granted it's more effort on the side of astronomers.
- Laremere 6y ago
  It depends on how the picture was captured - if it's merging many pictures it's possible to throw out ones with Satellites. However if it's a single long exposure, then that won't work. I think a shutter on the telescope that automatically closes when a satellite is in the viewing area is a more approachable method.
- mhh__ 6y ago
  If the sensor gets saturated because of a satellite that's your measurement gone, obviously it depends on the specific experiment. In the month that Arecibo collapsed I think it's potentially worth pointing out that astronomers aren't exactly suffering from an abundance of money.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
sneak 6y ago
Most places that will be Starlink customers have no internet of any kind available, and the situation even at maximum possible negative observation impact of Starlink is not accurately described as "not being able to observe the heavens anymore".
- threeseed 6y ago
  Pretty sure this statement isn't accurate. a) Even in the outbacks of Australia people still have access to the internet via satellite services. In fact very few places in the world, if any, have access to no internet at all rather it's just slow and expensive e.g. Iridium. b) Starlink needs ground stations to work which means it isn't going to be usable in totally rural areas. And even then it will be interesting to see how it competes with fixed wireless e.g. microwave.
  - martyvis 6y ago
    Currently you are correct in that the ground station and the end user need be in sight of the same Starlink satellite. In a future revision, the satellites will be able to bounce traffic between them in a mesh, thus allowing coverage in the most remote regions.
    - sneak 6y ago
      Is there anything stopping the ground stations from being a ground based relay between different starlink satellites, basically beaming down from one and up to another? It would increase latency but could serve the same purpose as the lasers, and all they would need at the intermediate ground stations is reliable power. Eventually you get back to one that has fiber.
Baeocystin 6y ago
The latest batch of satellites are already much improved in that regard compared to the earlier ones, and it's still early days. I am hopeful that things will continue to improve as the things proceed.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

nitrogen 6y ago

...for a little while after sunset, and mostly while a new launch of sats is deploying.

Baeocystin 6y ago
Eh... There's a little more to it than that. https://skyandtelescope.org/astronomy-news/starlink-satellites-astronomy/ https://skyandtelescope.org/astronomy-news/starlink-satellit... has more details. My personal opinion is that access to the global internet is important enough to justify the light pollution in the night sky. But I understand that not everyone thinks so, and regardless, steps to limit the constellations' impact are important to take.
- threeseed 6y ago
  I would love to be corrected but Starlink doesn't seem like a solution for true global internet. As you can see in this diagram which is the approved ground stations for Australia: https://i.redd.it/f7u55u7edbz51.jpg https://i.redd.it/f7u55u7edbz51.jpg It is really only competing with existing internet service providers and likely will not be profitable to roll out to even the rest of Australia let alone places like Africa.
  - centimeter 6y ago
    I believe the eventual goal is to add satellite-to-satellite links, to permit routing to more remote areas (albeit with increased latency).
    - threeseed 6y ago
      Be curious how feasible this is in practice. a) None of the launched satellites will be able to support it. b) ESA Sentinel laser link is only getting bandwidth of between 1.8-7.2 Gbit/s which isn't all that much.
      - Baeocystin 6y ago
        According to this link (short on details, unfortunately) at least a couple of the sats currently in orbit have laser hardware functional enough to test with. I'm looking forward to hearing more about what kind of bandwidth they're expecting. https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-starlink-space-lasers-first-orbital-test/ https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-starlink-space-lasers-first...
      - m4rtink 6y ago
        For the record the Iridium satellite phone network has been using (radio) inter-satellite links from 1990s.
  - ericd 6y ago
    They're already testing satellite-to-satellite, which for long hops, has the potential to actually be faster than terrestrial fiber, since light is significantly faster in vacuum. Access won't be limited to those near ground stations.

fasteddie31003 6y ago

Why can't astronomers have algorithms that selectively throw away data from pixels that are known to have a satellite or a plane in then? It seems like a problem that software can solve. Granted it's more effort on the side of astronomers.

Laremere 6y ago
It depends on how the picture was captured - if it's merging many pictures it's possible to throw out ones with Satellites. However if it's a single long exposure, then that won't work. I think a shutter on the telescope that automatically closes when a satellite is in the viewing area is a more approachable method.
mhh__ 6y ago
If the sensor gets saturated because of a satellite that's your measurement gone, obviously it depends on the specific experiment. In the month that Arecibo collapsed I think it's potentially worth pointing out that astronomers aren't exactly suffering from an abundance of money.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

sneak 6y ago

Most places that will be Starlink customers have no internet of any kind available, and the situation even at maximum possible negative observation impact of Starlink is not accurately described as "not being able to observe the heavens anymore".

threeseed 6y ago
Pretty sure this statement isn't accurate. a) Even in the outbacks of Australia people still have access to the internet via satellite services. In fact very few places in the world, if any, have access to no internet at all rather it's just slow and expensive e.g. Iridium. b) Starlink needs ground stations to work which means it isn't going to be usable in totally rural areas. And even then it will be interesting to see how it competes with fixed wireless e.g. microwave.
- martyvis 6y ago
  Currently you are correct in that the ground station and the end user need be in sight of the same Starlink satellite. In a future revision, the satellites will be able to bounce traffic between them in a mesh, thus allowing coverage in the most remote regions.
  - sneak 6y ago
    Is there anything stopping the ground stations from being a ground based relay between different starlink satellites, basically beaming down from one and up to another? It would increase latency but could serve the same purpose as the lasers, and all they would need at the intermediate ground stations is reliable power. Eventually you get back to one that has fiber.

Baeocystin 6y ago

The latest batch of satellites are already much improved in that regard compared to the earlier ones, and it's still early days. I am hopeful that things will continue to improve as the things proceed.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]