6 ms·

The Rapture Happened but I Wasn’t Called

42 points by bkohlmann 6y ago

leafmeal 6y ago
I don't fully understand resigning on principal. Hopefully this argument is naive and someone can correct me, but why not stay and fight for what you believe in? I worry that leaving is like removing the last vestige of hope. If Blank acknowledged that his departure was because he would have a terrible time working with a bunch of baffoons and so he quits, I would be more sympathetic. But if he believes that his protest will somehow make things better, or that it's the right thing to do for the sake of the common good, I'm confused.
- SkyMarshal 6y ago
  There are a couple reasons: 1. Personal sanity: When the majority of the group becomes stacked with yes-men you disagree with on principle, then you have no way of stopping them from doing what they’re going to do. Fighting that is like tilting at windmills and can be emotionally exhausting. Humans have a finite supply of energy and focus, and wasting it in such situations is neither productive nor pleasant. Better to just leave and go devote your energy to positive and productive endeavors instead. 2. Avoid tacit endorsement: When you become the minority in any group where the majority starts doing things you disagree with, especially ethically, then it’s very difficult for you to publicly distance yourself from those decisions while remaining part of the group. The minority members usually get less air time, less media attention, less soapbox opportunity to voice dissenting opinions. The only way to distance yourself decisively and indisputably is to leave the group.
  - leafmeal 6y ago
    Thanks for the thoughtful reply. These are definitely good reasons for someone to resign. They're also reasons that benefit the resigner personally. I think that's a good thing, and people should take care of themselves, but it reinforces my suspicion that resigning in protest is self-serving, and not usually beneficial to the person's cause. Again, nothing wrong with being self-serving, unless the resigner tries to frame it some other way.
    - SkyMarshal 6y ago
      It occurs to me there are two more reasons, non-self-serving this time, why someone might resign in protest: 1. When someone both prominent and respected resigns, it's a big attention-getter with the media and public. Shines a spotlight on the situation. 2. It also allows the one resigning to go public with criticisms and alarms that may not be possible otherwise, once they're a private independent citizen again. Especially for example in the case of the military or executive branch of the government, where it may be difficult or impossible to criticize the organization or someone in your chain of command while remaining a part of it. Imagine for example if Colin Powell had resigned from the Bush Administration, instead of making a presentation on Iraq WMD at the UN. That might have averted the Iraq war. Career military like Powell don't publicly criticize or contradict their commanders (Bush in this case), but resigning is a way to do exactly that without doing it explicitly.
      - leafmeal 6y ago
        I agree with your first point. With the second one, I'm less convinced. Perhaps I'm being a pedantic here, but you can always refuse an order. There may be consequences (like being court martialed) which you can avoid by resigning, but then you're resigning to protect yourself. I wonder if refusing is ever a more effective option, but my suspicion is no...
valuearb 6y ago
Steve Blank is a good dude.
senectus1 6y ago
how awkward... All the best to him for his principled stance.
amerine 6y ago
This is curious. All of these sycophants will get removed in January, Steve will get the gig back if he wants it.
- mark-r 6y ago
  Maybe he was hoping for that, and didn't want to be among the ranks of the removed.
troughway 6y ago
> We face authoritarian governments in China, in Russia, in Iran and North Korea, governments that not only oppress their own people, Tibetans, Uighurs, those in Hong Kong, but that offer the world a dystopian vision of control. He has way more to lose than any of you by daring to bring up Chinese concentration camps, yet every time someone brings this up on HN you play whataboutism and other bullshit games. You’re cowards and you should be ashamed of yourselves.
- Hnrobert42 6y ago
  I can’t understand whether you agree with the author’s stance or not, but I am flagging because name-calling is inappropriate in civil discourse.
  - troughway 6y ago
    Oh no, anything but that.
    - Hnrobert42 6y ago
      Do you believe it is helpful? Do you believe name-calling meaningfully contributes to a good-faith discussion?
      - troughway 6y ago
        It's not intended to be helpful and, quite frankly, the people who silence those who try to raise an issue with Han supremacist deserve every last bit that is coming to them. You don't like it? Tough. There's nothing to be added to this discussion. Steve Blank is a great person and it sucks to see the way things are turning out for his position here. I'm glad he's raising these issues and for that I hope he gets out with his head intact.
        rendall 6y ago
        > "...silence those who try to raise an issue with Han supremacist" You're not being silenced because you're raising issues, but because you're insulting people. Tone that down and you can raise whatever issues you feel are important
xpe 6y ago
I'm trying to find a name or term for this underlying ethical dilemma; i.e. resign out of protest versus stay and try and be a force for good. I'd like to read some philosophical perspectives. Suggestions?
- sigmaprimus 6y ago
  I think Shakespeare wrote about a guy named Brutus that had a simmilar "moral dilemma", it didn't end well for Cesar or the Republic IRL.
- sigmaprimus 6y ago
  Any luck on Your search? I am interested in what the name or term would be also. I couldnt find much in the gospels, though I'm by no means an expert. I asked a few others but nothing came of it yet. I would think there should be historical writings, myths or fables given the human nature of such a dillema.

42 points by bkohlmann 6y ago

I don't fully understand resigning on principal. Hopefully this argument is naive and someone can correct me, but why not stay and fight for what you believe in? I worry that leaving is like removing the last vestige of hope. If Blank acknowledged that his departure was because he would have a terrible time working with a bunch of baffoons and so he quits, I would be more sympathetic. But if he believes that his protest will somehow make things better, or that it's the right thing to do for the sake of the common good, I'm confused.

SkyMarshal 6y ago
There are a couple reasons: 1. Personal sanity: When the majority of the group becomes stacked with yes-men you disagree with on principle, then you have no way of stopping them from doing what they’re going to do. Fighting that is like tilting at windmills and can be emotionally exhausting. Humans have a finite supply of energy and focus, and wasting it in such situations is neither productive nor pleasant. Better to just leave and go devote your energy to positive and productive endeavors instead. 2. Avoid tacit endorsement: When you become the minority in any group where the majority starts doing things you disagree with, especially ethically, then it’s very difficult for you to publicly distance yourself from those decisions while remaining part of the group. The minority members usually get less air time, less media attention, less soapbox opportunity to voice dissenting opinions. The only way to distance yourself decisively and indisputably is to leave the group.
- leafmeal 6y ago
  Thanks for the thoughtful reply. These are definitely good reasons for someone to resign. They're also reasons that benefit the resigner personally. I think that's a good thing, and people should take care of themselves, but it reinforces my suspicion that resigning in protest is self-serving, and not usually beneficial to the person's cause. Again, nothing wrong with being self-serving, unless the resigner tries to frame it some other way.
  - SkyMarshal 6y ago
    It occurs to me there are two more reasons, non-self-serving this time, why someone might resign in protest: 1. When someone both prominent and respected resigns, it's a big attention-getter with the media and public. Shines a spotlight on the situation. 2. It also allows the one resigning to go public with criticisms and alarms that may not be possible otherwise, once they're a private independent citizen again. Especially for example in the case of the military or executive branch of the government, where it may be difficult or impossible to criticize the organization or someone in your chain of command while remaining a part of it. Imagine for example if Colin Powell had resigned from the Bush Administration, instead of making a presentation on Iraq WMD at the UN. That might have averted the Iraq war. Career military like Powell don't publicly criticize or contradict their commanders (Bush in this case), but resigning is a way to do exactly that without doing it explicitly.
    - leafmeal 6y ago
      I agree with your first point. With the second one, I'm less convinced. Perhaps I'm being a pedantic here, but you can always refuse an order. There may be consequences (like being court martialed) which you can avoid by resigning, but then you're resigning to protect yourself. I wonder if refusing is ever a more effective option, but my suspicion is no...

valuearb 6y ago

Steve Blank is a good dude.

senectus1 6y ago

how awkward... All the best to him for his principled stance.

amerine 6y ago

This is curious. All of these sycophants will get removed in January, Steve will get the gig back if he wants it.

mark-r 6y ago
Maybe he was hoping for that, and didn't want to be among the ranks of the removed.

troughway 6y ago

> We face authoritarian governments in China, in Russia, in Iran and North Korea, governments that not only oppress their own people, Tibetans, Uighurs, those in Hong Kong, but that offer the world a dystopian vision of control. He has way more to lose than any of you by daring to bring up Chinese concentration camps, yet every time someone brings this up on HN you play whataboutism and other bullshit games. You’re cowards and you should be ashamed of yourselves.

Hnrobert42 6y ago
I can’t understand whether you agree with the author’s stance or not, but I am flagging because name-calling is inappropriate in civil discourse.
- troughway 6y ago
  Oh no, anything but that.
  - Hnrobert42 6y ago
    Do you believe it is helpful? Do you believe name-calling meaningfully contributes to a good-faith discussion?
    - troughway 6y ago
      It's not intended to be helpful and, quite frankly, the people who silence those who try to raise an issue with Han supremacist deserve every last bit that is coming to them. You don't like it? Tough. There's nothing to be added to this discussion. Steve Blank is a great person and it sucks to see the way things are turning out for his position here. I'm glad he's raising these issues and for that I hope he gets out with his head intact.
      - rendall 6y ago
        > "...silence those who try to raise an issue with Han supremacist" You're not being silenced because you're raising issues, but because you're insulting people. Tone that down and you can raise whatever issues you feel are important

xpe 6y ago

I'm trying to find a name or term for this underlying ethical dilemma; i.e. resign out of protest versus stay and try and be a force for good. I'd like to read some philosophical perspectives. Suggestions?

sigmaprimus 6y ago
I think Shakespeare wrote about a guy named Brutus that had a simmilar "moral dilemma", it didn't end well for Cesar or the Republic IRL.
sigmaprimus 6y ago
Any luck on Your search? I am interested in what the name or term would be also. I couldnt find much in the gospels, though I'm by no means an expert. I asked a few others but nothing came of it yet. I would think there should be historical writings, myths or fables given the human nature of such a dillema.