6 ms·

I can echo this. I loved the bay when I first moved here 8 years ago, but the political dynamic of the area, and the ever growing drug/homelessness crisis said

I can echo this. I loved the bay when I first moved here 8 years ago, but the political dynamic of the area, and the ever growing drug/homelessness crisis said dynamic is completely unable to deal with, both have just worn my enthusiasm away.

8ytecoder 6y ago
Not all tech employees wanted to live in SF and commute for 4 hours a day. Cities like Palo Alto and Mountain View had severe restrictions on building housing. So SF, Oakland and San Jose took the burden of housing the techies. Naturally people here got angry. But instead of focusing the anger in solving problems it was extremely common for people I meet to loudly complain about tech workers - bars, parties, nextdoor and side walks were full of hate messages. I left the city 3 years ago and I completely understand how frustrating it is.
DSingularity 6y ago
It is unbecoming to point at the homeless and blame them for making our cities unattractive. These are human beings with souls and emotions. When they make us feel uncomfortable with their appearance or behavior we should remember they lead lives where they are likely suffering most of every day. We as a people have failed to create a society with space for these people to exist in peace, happiness, and good health. Now we can’t let ourselves conveniently overlook their humanity due to the inconvenience their state creates for us as a whole.
- tomjen3 6y ago
  >It is unbecoming to point at the homeless and blame them for making our cities unattractive. I had a coworker who visited sf. A homeless person threw a bottle of urine all over him. Do you think that made it more or less attractive? Seriously we all suffer, but most of us suffer in such a way that we don't make the world too much worse for others.
  - romanoderoma 6y ago
    Wow. I didn't know the homeless were to blame for making the World much worse for others. Thanks for opening my eyes.
    - Konohamaru 6y ago
      Take your virtue signaling elsewhere, Prophet Amos. That incident was evidence that the city does not care about the quality of life of its residents (both the non-homeless, who are expected to suck it up and grin, and the homeless, who probably haven't been given any psychiatric treatment or any sort of intervention whatsoever by the state); it was not about blaming poor people.
      - romanoderoma 6y ago
        Wow. Thanks so much for teaching me how to live. I'm sorry that the city where you live is such a terrible place, I come from a poor country in Europe and homeless people here are treated freely by the State, because people taxes pay for public universal health care. And every neighborhood in every city has their own local homeless that are part of the living tissue of the place, not a nuisance (or something to bring up when you talk with others about what's wrong in your city, we use holes in the road and waste management). I understand that when you are a rich country, you can't afford to waste resources on it. I also understand that it's easier to blame a middle aged man like me for "virtue signaling" (I don't even know what that means, sorry) than apologizing. Homelessness as "a problem" is the symptom of a selfish society, more than a failure in city management. Anyway "that incident" is an anecdote, it doesn't prove anything, nobody knows if it's the truth, it's simply blaming the poor, disguised as caring about the city.
        BobbyJo 6y ago
        How many homeless people have you met in SF? I've talked 1:1 with about 3, and in all three cases the people refused ample help due to 1) not wanting to go to rehab or 2) paranoid schizophrenia, which the city won't deal with to avoid civil rights problems. Boiling everything down to 'homelessness means society is selfish' is over simplifying an incredibly complicated problem. There are things that can be done, but it requires a lot more thought than holding hands and handing out free stuff. SF is probably the least selfish city on the planet, which is arguably part of the problem.
- BobbyJo 6y ago
  They are people, and I feel for the trouble they are in, but no amount of compassion or empathy could convince me to take a stroll through a majority of SF downtown after dark. Likewise with many of the South Bay trails and parks. I don't even go to SF downtown during the day anymore because of the number of times I've almost stepped in human feces, and the needles strewn about. 8 years of liberal politicians claiming to care, and 8 years later it is significantly worse. I could excuse the lack of progress if the city government wasn't rolling in money the entire time. If they can't solve the problem with the way things were, they are going to have a hell of time doing it with the way they are headed. Edit: I'd also like to point out society does not exist to gift every person peace, safety, and health. A just society offers opportunities, not guarantees.
  - jason0597 6y ago
    > A just society offers opportunities, not guarantees. Tell that to the people who made a mistake when they were younger, got a criminal record, and are now vilified for the rest of their lives and are turned down from the vast majority of jobs. Is it any wonder you see those people turn to crime to make a living?
    - BobbyJo 6y ago
      Sounds like those people need more opportunities to me.
  - Pet_Ant 6y ago
    > I'd also like to point out society does not exist to gift every person peace, safety, and health. A just society offers opportunities, not guarantees. In that case I won't guarantee not to nick your stuff, just give you the opportunity to not have it nicked.
    - BobbyJo 6y ago
      An opportunity is enough, I'd politely decline :)
callinOutLiars 6y ago
It should be a federal crime for the police to send their homeless to other cities.

8ytecoder 6y ago

Not all tech employees wanted to live in SF and commute for 4 hours a day. Cities like Palo Alto and Mountain View had severe restrictions on building housing. So SF, Oakland and San Jose took the burden of housing the techies. Naturally people here got angry. But instead of focusing the anger in solving problems it was extremely common for people I meet to loudly complain about tech workers - bars, parties, nextdoor and side walks were full of hate messages. I left the city 3 years ago and I completely understand how frustrating it is.

DSingularity 6y ago

It is unbecoming to point at the homeless and blame them for making our cities unattractive. These are human beings with souls and emotions. When they make us feel uncomfortable with their appearance or behavior we should remember they lead lives where they are likely suffering most of every day. We as a people have failed to create a society with space for these people to exist in peace, happiness, and good health. Now we can’t let ourselves conveniently overlook their humanity due to the inconvenience their state creates for us as a whole.

tomjen3 6y ago
>It is unbecoming to point at the homeless and blame them for making our cities unattractive. I had a coworker who visited sf. A homeless person threw a bottle of urine all over him. Do you think that made it more or less attractive? Seriously we all suffer, but most of us suffer in such a way that we don't make the world too much worse for others.
- romanoderoma 6y ago
  Wow. I didn't know the homeless were to blame for making the World much worse for others. Thanks for opening my eyes.
  - Konohamaru 6y ago
    Take your virtue signaling elsewhere, Prophet Amos. That incident was evidence that the city does not care about the quality of life of its residents (both the non-homeless, who are expected to suck it up and grin, and the homeless, who probably haven't been given any psychiatric treatment or any sort of intervention whatsoever by the state); it was not about blaming poor people.
    - romanoderoma 6y ago
      Wow. Thanks so much for teaching me how to live. I'm sorry that the city where you live is such a terrible place, I come from a poor country in Europe and homeless people here are treated freely by the State, because people taxes pay for public universal health care. And every neighborhood in every city has their own local homeless that are part of the living tissue of the place, not a nuisance (or something to bring up when you talk with others about what's wrong in your city, we use holes in the road and waste management). I understand that when you are a rich country, you can't afford to waste resources on it. I also understand that it's easier to blame a middle aged man like me for "virtue signaling" (I don't even know what that means, sorry) than apologizing. Homelessness as "a problem" is the symptom of a selfish society, more than a failure in city management. Anyway "that incident" is an anecdote, it doesn't prove anything, nobody knows if it's the truth, it's simply blaming the poor, disguised as caring about the city.
      - BobbyJo 6y ago
        How many homeless people have you met in SF? I've talked 1:1 with about 3, and in all three cases the people refused ample help due to 1) not wanting to go to rehab or 2) paranoid schizophrenia, which the city won't deal with to avoid civil rights problems. Boiling everything down to 'homelessness means society is selfish' is over simplifying an incredibly complicated problem. There are things that can be done, but it requires a lot more thought than holding hands and handing out free stuff. SF is probably the least selfish city on the planet, which is arguably part of the problem.
BobbyJo 6y ago
They are people, and I feel for the trouble they are in, but no amount of compassion or empathy could convince me to take a stroll through a majority of SF downtown after dark. Likewise with many of the South Bay trails and parks. I don't even go to SF downtown during the day anymore because of the number of times I've almost stepped in human feces, and the needles strewn about. 8 years of liberal politicians claiming to care, and 8 years later it is significantly worse. I could excuse the lack of progress if the city government wasn't rolling in money the entire time. If they can't solve the problem with the way things were, they are going to have a hell of time doing it with the way they are headed. Edit: I'd also like to point out society does not exist to gift every person peace, safety, and health. A just society offers opportunities, not guarantees.
- jason0597 6y ago
  > A just society offers opportunities, not guarantees. Tell that to the people who made a mistake when they were younger, got a criminal record, and are now vilified for the rest of their lives and are turned down from the vast majority of jobs. Is it any wonder you see those people turn to crime to make a living?
  - BobbyJo 6y ago
    Sounds like those people need more opportunities to me.
- Pet_Ant 6y ago
  > I'd also like to point out society does not exist to gift every person peace, safety, and health. A just society offers opportunities, not guarantees. In that case I won't guarantee not to nick your stuff, just give you the opportunity to not have it nicked.
  - BobbyJo 6y ago
    An opportunity is enough, I'd politely decline :)

callinOutLiars 6y ago

It should be a federal crime for the police to send their homeless to other cities.