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If you are surprised by these tactics, there are hours and hours of video you should watch from peaceful protests that have occurred over the last 6 months.
by slg 6y ago
If you are surprised by these tactics, there are hours and hours of video you should watch from peaceful protests that have occurred over the last 6 months.
- lawnchair_larry 6y agoFiery but peaceful protests, right? Or, the correct, non-orwellian term: violent riots.
- godelski 6y agoSurprised? No. Trying to not make a left or right comment? Yes.
- slg 6y agoFair enough. I would have liked if the state shouldn't use violence punitively was just an American stance rather than a left or right one.
- frabbit 6y agoHonestly this seems like a bonkers denial of reality: the State is exactly the embodiment of the use and monopoly of violence. Pretending otherwise is ignoring hundreds of years of empirical data.
- slg 6y agoWe aren't denying or even objecting to the state's monopoly on violence. The problem is the word "punitive" there. State violence should be a means to stop other violence. It shouldn't be used as a punishment by itself (beyond more indirect forms of violence such as denying someone's freedom by putting them in prison).
- godelski 6y agoIt shouldn't be, and that's why I'm being a bit careful with my language. To normalize that it is in fact a bilateral issue. How to solve it and what to do about, sure, those are left and right opinions. But the fact that it is an issue needs to be normalized, because it is indeed a fact.
- Simulacra 6y agoI wish the state wouldn’t use government agencies putatively, such as the IRS, but they have, and will probably increase.
- bsanr2 6y agoHalf the problem is that you've been convinced that this is a left-right issue. It's political, absolutely. But not left-right. Stand up for what's just.
- godelski 6y agoBeing careful with my language should not be indicative of believing that it is a left-right issue. Being careful of my language should be indicative that I believe people will interpret it as a left-right position and I'm not here to discuss politics.
- bsanr2 6y agoYou're talking about how society should be run and how the state should respond to issues within its purview. That's inherently political. I would say that being careful with one's language to avoid offense is reasonable, if the hypothetical other party's propensity for taking offense is reasonable. Incense at the specter of a political discussion is not reasonable.
- girvo 6y agoYeah this is more on the other axis. Authoritarianism doesn’t care about left or right.
- godelski 6y ago
- rsynnott 6y agoIt's an oddity of US politics that this is perceived as a left or right issue at all, in that one 'side' seems to have adopted the stance that police should be allowed do pretty much anything with no repercussions or meaningful oversight. Outside the lunatic far-right, this sort of thing would be condemned from all sides in many developed democracies.
- UncleOxidant 6y agoExactly. I can recall when the right was all upset about Ruby Ridge and Waco. Now that it's people they perceive to be their enemies being punished they're cool with it.
- notmarkus 6y agoWho on the "right" is cool with this? Genuinely asking.
- ojnabieoot 6y agoThe police (and their unions, and civilian voters with authoritarian pro-police ideologies) are a major political constituency on the right, one that Donald Trump had repeatedly pandered to (because he is a pro-police authoritarian). It is beyond naive to pretend “unaccountable police violence is good” isn’t a mainstream right-wing belief in 2020. > When you see these thugs being thrown into the back of a paddy wagon, you just seen them thrown in, rough. I said, ‘Please don’t be too nice.’ [Trump, July 2017] > If you see somebody getting ready to throw a tomato, knock the crap out of them, would you?Seriously, OK? Just knock the hell — I promise you, I will pay for the legal fees. I promise. I promise. They won’t be so much, because the courts agree with us too — what’s going on in this country? [Trump, July 2016] > “Sometimes they grab one guy, ‘I’m a reporter! I’m a reporter!” ...they threw him aside like he was a little bag of popcorn.” [Trump, September 2020, clearly mocking the reporter in context] So the people on the “right” who are cool with this are basically every Republican official and about 70m Americans who voted for Trump last month. Seems like a lot of people!
- 0x445442 6y agoIf you weren’t trying to make a left or right comment why use the word “right”?