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This is pre-Covid: > easily accessible nature From my office in Palo Alto, I can ride my bicycle up Sand Hill Road, past horse farms, and then up a secluded 2

This is pre-Covid: > easily accessible nature From my office in Palo Alto, I can ride my bicycle up Sand Hill Road, past horse farms, and then up a secluded 2000 ft (~600 meters) mountain with virtually no traffic and return during my lunch break. Or I can take a long lunch and ride out to the coast, through rolling farmlands. And I can do that virtually any day of the year, thanks to the local climate. Most of the peninsula (which is, arguably, not SV proper) is like this, with tons of hiking within walking distance of where you live or work. The reason is that almost everything west of I-280 is undeveloped. As you ride or drive around that area, it's very easy to find a view where the only sign of humans is the road you're traveling on. If I want to go skiing, I can leave work an hour early and drive up to Tahoe for the weekend. Or I could drive down to Santa Cruz for the day and go surfing. Not quite "nature", but many people like to drive up to Napa for a day-trip to visit world-class wineries. > luxury retail Then, after work, I can walk over to my choice of Michelin starred restaurants (and I will pass multiple art galleries and branches of private banks). Granted, none of the restaurants in Palo Alto have more than one Michelin star (how gauche!). If conspicuous consumption is your thing, San Mateo, Palo Alto, and Santa Clara each have high-end malls with practically every luxury brand you can imagine. Want to buy Ferrari or a McLaren? There's a dealer for each one within 10 miles of Mountain View. > plenty of places all over the country that fit this bill Many places have some of what SV offers. Very very few have everything, and I would argue that none of the cities you listed fit the bill.

Apocryphon 6y ago
> Many places have some of what SV offers. Very very few have everything, and I would argue that none of the cities you listed fit the bill. Ah, but all of them have more affordable housing.
- pvarangot 6y ago
  I think the point here is that there's things that justify that price and the other downcomings of living in the area. I'm the one that started this discussion and it proved controversial. I tried to just talk about like, the amenities of living in the area and tech jobs, but most people replied saying "wait there's two or three of your list of five or six in...". I may be biased because I'm not a "generalist web developer", I work in either crazy startups or kinda niche embedded/low level roles. I still get two or three really good job offers from big companies per month even when I'm not looking and they are in SV. I was getting one or more per week pre-COVID. Even when actively looking for that type jobs in Colorado and Austin I can't find them. Colorado would be more interesting for me if I was a citizen and could work the government aerospace and defense jobs but unfortunately I can't.
- labcomputer 6y ago
  Ok, so what? The premise was that there are lots of other places that have what SV has. And, by implication, that SV's high prices are unjustified. I was merely pointing out that SV has an array of amenities that are found together in very few other places. And if you want what SV has, there are very few other places you can get it. Supply and demand. It's that simple. Maybe you don't care about fancy restaurants or art galleries or spending time outdoors. That's totally cool. Maybe all you care about is finding the absolute cheapest apartment on planet earth. Again, knock your socks off. SV doesn't have cheap housing. If that's all you care about, look someplace else.
  - Apocryphon 6y ago
    As an SV local, I am overly jaded about the place. South Bay is wonderfully boring suburbia to grow up to- and would be to raise a family, if not for the housing prices- and S.F. seems pitifully small, and everything closes so early for a supposed world-class city. Not to mention, BART ends before last call, which is just crazy. The outdoors here are great, but how many times can one climb Castle Rock, Mission Peak, or visit Angel Island, Rancho San Antonio, or Point Reyes? And Muir Woods is always full of tourists, it's like Disneyland in a forest. Of course, the grass is always greener. But I think natives are entitled to grouse a little bit, given the circumstances. It's just a little scary if this is the best the U.S. has to offer. "Despising, For you, the city, thus I turn my back: There is a world elsewhere."

Apocryphon 6y ago

> Many places have some of what SV offers. Very very few have everything, and I would argue that none of the cities you listed fit the bill. Ah, but all of them have more affordable housing.

pvarangot 6y ago
I think the point here is that there's things that justify that price and the other downcomings of living in the area. I'm the one that started this discussion and it proved controversial. I tried to just talk about like, the amenities of living in the area and tech jobs, but most people replied saying "wait there's two or three of your list of five or six in...". I may be biased because I'm not a "generalist web developer", I work in either crazy startups or kinda niche embedded/low level roles. I still get two or three really good job offers from big companies per month even when I'm not looking and they are in SV. I was getting one or more per week pre-COVID. Even when actively looking for that type jobs in Colorado and Austin I can't find them. Colorado would be more interesting for me if I was a citizen and could work the government aerospace and defense jobs but unfortunately I can't.
labcomputer 6y ago
Ok, so what? The premise was that there are lots of other places that have what SV has. And, by implication, that SV's high prices are unjustified. I was merely pointing out that SV has an array of amenities that are found together in very few other places. And if you want what SV has, there are very few other places you can get it. Supply and demand. It's that simple. Maybe you don't care about fancy restaurants or art galleries or spending time outdoors. That's totally cool. Maybe all you care about is finding the absolute cheapest apartment on planet earth. Again, knock your socks off. SV doesn't have cheap housing. If that's all you care about, look someplace else.
- Apocryphon 6y ago
  As an SV local, I am overly jaded about the place. South Bay is wonderfully boring suburbia to grow up to- and would be to raise a family, if not for the housing prices- and S.F. seems pitifully small, and everything closes so early for a supposed world-class city. Not to mention, BART ends before last call, which is just crazy. The outdoors here are great, but how many times can one climb Castle Rock, Mission Peak, or visit Angel Island, Rancho San Antonio, or Point Reyes? And Muir Woods is always full of tourists, it's like Disneyland in a forest. Of course, the grass is always greener. But I think natives are entitled to grouse a little bit, given the circumstances. It's just a little scary if this is the best the U.S. has to offer. "Despising, For you, the city, thus I turn my back: There is a world elsewhere."