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WikiLeaks' Assange gets Australian peace prize

203 points by zephyrfalcon 15y ago

HockeyBiasDotCo 15y ago
Oh brother...
- daniel1980fl 15y ago
  In my opinion the "peace" part in this means, by releasing the cables, he deeply embarrassed US (to which some US politicians even openly wishes him death). But think for a moment: a thief won't stop stealing until he got caught. Then, one of two may happen: either he come back on the streets and steal again, or learn his lesson through punishment and embarrassment (oh, if I steal again and get caught, it won't be nice) and stop stealing. I think that's where the "peace" part comes in. Next time the US government will try to double-cross different countries on different issues, ambassadors, politicians, soldiers and other involved will think twice or three times prior. Further, US gov put him on wanted list claiming that he released so much confidential information that US will drown under terrorist attacks and the hell itself will break loose. Well, today I think it is safe to say that nothing like that happened; I havent heard about even one single breach when a crime party would use a wiki leaks info. Looks like, not surprisingly, US government overblown "security and confidentiality" part out of proportion. No wonder; after all, what are the other ways to rip citizens off their hard earned money, shove them into industrial, private military complex or other non-government third party entities while taking away the remaining of the US liberty. congrats to Assange.
corin_ 15y ago
Seems incredibly likely that he'll take the 2011 Nobel Peace Prize as well.
- rimantas 15y ago
  Genuinely curious: how did he improve the world? At least I heard more news about his Swedish affair than about anything significant disclosed by wikileaks (nicknames of the politicians aside).
  - th0ma5 15y ago
    one can, sort of, trace the "arab spring" back to some of the diplomatic correspondence they leaked... this lead to the initial protests in tunisia
  - corin_ 15y ago
    There are obviously people whose views range from "he's a terrorist" to "he's the best man alive", and everything in between. A quote from this article as one example of a possible justification: "Assange himself claimed publication of the cables helped shape uprisings in North Africa and the Middle East and said WikiLeaks was on the side of justice." If you are of the belief that nothing has so far made much of a difference, there is still an argument that by pushing for more openness from Governments he is helping move towards a better, and potentially more peaceful, future.
    - koenigdavidmj 15y ago
      Those views all exist regarding Liu Xiaobo too.
    - marshray 15y ago
      There are obviously people whose views range from "he's a terrorist" to "he's the best man alive", and everything in between. You know, people were saying the same thing before they gave it to Yassir Arafat, except for the part about him being the best man alive.
    - tzs 15y ago
      You can equally validly argue that this will lead to a worse, less peaceful future, because some secrecy is essential for governments to function. For example, in order to make the right decisions when dealing with foreign affairs, a government needs accurate information from its diplomats and other agents. Already one diplomat (the US ambassador to Mexico) lost his job because he provided an honest assessment of Mexico's organized crime problem and the ineffectiveness of Mexico's attempts to deal with it in his reports back to Washington. Wikileaks leaked those reports, and that embarrassed Mexican officials. Ambassadors can't function if the host country is pissed off at them, so the Ambassador was withdrawn. The major effect of these leaks is going to be for the government to become less open. Assuming Manning is indeed the source of most of these leaks, the reason he had access to all that information was because the government was trying to be more open internally. One of the findings of the 9/11 investigations was that collectively we had enough information to anticipate an stop the attack, but because the information was spread among several agencies, no one was able to put it all together and see the connections. In response to that finding, the government purposefully started making information more widely available across agencies, and to more people in those agencies. Surely that will be cut way back now, with much less sharing between agencies, and information only going to those who definitely need it.
- wnoise 15y ago
  I can see an argument that he deserves it, but that's a far cry from saying he'll get it.
- Joakal 15y ago
  A Norwegian parliamentarian has nominated Wikileaks founder Julian Assange for the 2011 Nobel Peace Prize, saying his publication of thousands of secret government documents has helped to promote human rights, democracy and freedom of speech.[0] [0] http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wikileaks-julian-assange-nominated-nobel-peace-prize/story?id=12825383 http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wikileaks-julian-assange-nomi...
  - olalonde 15y ago
    And how did he promote democracy? Didn't Americans democratically elect a government which estimated that keeping diplomatic cables secret was the right thing to do? Didn't Assange publicly release those cables? That being said, he certainly promoted freedom of speech.
    - ThomPete 15y ago
      And since when where governments the holder of truth :) I fact if you look at Assanges argument you will realize just why giving him the peace prize might be a very good idea.
    - cromulent 15y ago
      Nixon's democratically elected government estimated that keeping Watergate secret was the right thing to do. I would suggest that Woodward and Bernstein promoted democracy by releasing the information publicly. Making things difficult for the government by holding them to the light is not anti-democratic, even if the government is democratically elected.
      - olalonde 15y ago
        Your judging an action by its consequences rather than arguing about the greater principle. Is it OK for me to kill a murderer? After all, I'd be rendering a service to society. We have a rule of law for a reason and the right way to bring more government transparency is through peaceful persuasion, not disregard for the law. Why not establish laws that guarantee government transparency instead? Why not elect a government that is committed to transparency?
- derrida 15y ago
  That would be remarkable given that the Nobel prize is awarded by Sweden he is also facing extradition to Sweden.
  - cromulent 15y ago
    True, except that the peace prize laureate is selected by the Norwegian Nobel Committee.
    - derrida 15y ago
      You are right.
keyle 15y ago
That's great, but how does that help the guy get out of the mess he's in?... I think he needs official help, not some prize which promotes as much the prize giver than the receiver.
- jrockway 15y ago
  What mess is he in? Last I checked, he was appealing the extradition to Sweden for questioning about the "rape" allegations. Let's say he loses the appeal; he shows up in Sweden, answers some questions, and is done. The Swedish government has an amazingly weak case against him; so weak it's already been dropped once. If he doesn't lose the appeal, then he'll stay in England a free man. The US doesn't like him, but he didn't do anything illegal in the US, so that's not really a problem for him. I doubt he'll be dropping by, though.
  - pyre 15y ago
    I think there is speculation that he'll get extradited from Sweden, though I don't know the specifics of why that is.
    - ErrantX 15y ago
      That can only happen if the British authorities approve, though. So if the US wanted him there is, legally, no practical difference trying to extradite him from the UK or Sweden. So it seems unlikely. I think the rumour started as part of the general theory that the Sweden allegations were a conspiracy by the US to discredit him.
      - nickik 15y ago
        legally there is no diffrence but his lawyers say that its much harder to extadite him from england than from sweden so thats where he wants to stay.
      - uriel 15y ago
        He himself has admitted it would be much easier for the US to extradite him from the UK than from Sweden.
olalonde 15y ago
Socrates is probably turning in his grave...
- redthrowaway 15y ago
  I'm not seeing the relation between Assange and Socrates.
  - olalonde 15y ago
    I was referring to the Crito dialogue[1]. Socrates said in a dialogue with Crito: "You must either persuade [your country] or obey its orders, and endure in silence whatever it instructs you to endure... leads you into was to be wounded or killed, you must obey." Socrates probably would have referred to Assange as a villain, not as a hero, for bringing transparency through illegal means rather than persuasion. "Illegal means" might be a bit exaggerated here since he didn't commit the crimes himself but he certainly encouraged them. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crito http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crito
    - JoachimSchipper 15y ago
      Socrates favored relationships with young boys, too. Times have changed.
      - olalonde 15y ago
        Do you suggest respect for the law isn't important anymore?
        JoachimSchipper 15y ago
        I suggest Socrates is not an authority you want to invoke on this topic. If nothing else, because he was unjustly executed partly for contempt of court. Also, while it's usually good to comply with the law, I wouldn't recommend completely delegating your ethics to the US Congress.
lukefabish 15y ago
Gloriously under-reported in Australian mainstream media. So far the ABC (Australian Broadcasting Corp.) is the only one carrying it on its front page.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]

203 points by zephyrfalcon 15y ago

HockeyBiasDotCo 15y ago

Oh brother...

daniel1980fl 15y ago
In my opinion the "peace" part in this means, by releasing the cables, he deeply embarrassed US (to which some US politicians even openly wishes him death). But think for a moment: a thief won't stop stealing until he got caught. Then, one of two may happen: either he come back on the streets and steal again, or learn his lesson through punishment and embarrassment (oh, if I steal again and get caught, it won't be nice) and stop stealing. I think that's where the "peace" part comes in. Next time the US government will try to double-cross different countries on different issues, ambassadors, politicians, soldiers and other involved will think twice or three times prior. Further, US gov put him on wanted list claiming that he released so much confidential information that US will drown under terrorist attacks and the hell itself will break loose. Well, today I think it is safe to say that nothing like that happened; I havent heard about even one single breach when a crime party would use a wiki leaks info. Looks like, not surprisingly, US government overblown "security and confidentiality" part out of proportion. No wonder; after all, what are the other ways to rip citizens off their hard earned money, shove them into industrial, private military complex or other non-government third party entities while taking away the remaining of the US liberty. congrats to Assange.

corin_ 15y ago

Seems incredibly likely that he'll take the 2011 Nobel Peace Prize as well.

rimantas 15y ago
Genuinely curious: how did he improve the world? At least I heard more news about his Swedish affair than about anything significant disclosed by wikileaks (nicknames of the politicians aside).
- th0ma5 15y ago
  one can, sort of, trace the "arab spring" back to some of the diplomatic correspondence they leaked... this lead to the initial protests in tunisia
- corin_ 15y ago
  There are obviously people whose views range from "he's a terrorist" to "he's the best man alive", and everything in between. A quote from this article as one example of a possible justification: "Assange himself claimed publication of the cables helped shape uprisings in North Africa and the Middle East and said WikiLeaks was on the side of justice." If you are of the belief that nothing has so far made much of a difference, there is still an argument that by pushing for more openness from Governments he is helping move towards a better, and potentially more peaceful, future.
  - koenigdavidmj 15y ago
    Those views all exist regarding Liu Xiaobo too.
  - marshray 15y ago
    There are obviously people whose views range from "he's a terrorist" to "he's the best man alive", and everything in between. You know, people were saying the same thing before they gave it to Yassir Arafat, except for the part about him being the best man alive.
  - tzs 15y ago
    You can equally validly argue that this will lead to a worse, less peaceful future, because some secrecy is essential for governments to function. For example, in order to make the right decisions when dealing with foreign affairs, a government needs accurate information from its diplomats and other agents. Already one diplomat (the US ambassador to Mexico) lost his job because he provided an honest assessment of Mexico's organized crime problem and the ineffectiveness of Mexico's attempts to deal with it in his reports back to Washington. Wikileaks leaked those reports, and that embarrassed Mexican officials. Ambassadors can't function if the host country is pissed off at them, so the Ambassador was withdrawn. The major effect of these leaks is going to be for the government to become less open. Assuming Manning is indeed the source of most of these leaks, the reason he had access to all that information was because the government was trying to be more open internally. One of the findings of the 9/11 investigations was that collectively we had enough information to anticipate an stop the attack, but because the information was spread among several agencies, no one was able to put it all together and see the connections. In response to that finding, the government purposefully started making information more widely available across agencies, and to more people in those agencies. Surely that will be cut way back now, with much less sharing between agencies, and information only going to those who definitely need it.
wnoise 15y ago
I can see an argument that he deserves it, but that's a far cry from saying he'll get it.
Joakal 15y ago
A Norwegian parliamentarian has nominated Wikileaks founder Julian Assange for the 2011 Nobel Peace Prize, saying his publication of thousands of secret government documents has helped to promote human rights, democracy and freedom of speech.[0] [0] http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wikileaks-julian-assange-nominated-nobel-peace-prize/story?id=12825383 http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wikileaks-julian-assange-nomi...
- olalonde 15y ago
  And how did he promote democracy? Didn't Americans democratically elect a government which estimated that keeping diplomatic cables secret was the right thing to do? Didn't Assange publicly release those cables? That being said, he certainly promoted freedom of speech.
  - ThomPete 15y ago
    And since when where governments the holder of truth :) I fact if you look at Assanges argument you will realize just why giving him the peace prize might be a very good idea.
  - cromulent 15y ago
    Nixon's democratically elected government estimated that keeping Watergate secret was the right thing to do. I would suggest that Woodward and Bernstein promoted democracy by releasing the information publicly. Making things difficult for the government by holding them to the light is not anti-democratic, even if the government is democratically elected.
    - olalonde 15y ago
      Your judging an action by its consequences rather than arguing about the greater principle. Is it OK for me to kill a murderer? After all, I'd be rendering a service to society. We have a rule of law for a reason and the right way to bring more government transparency is through peaceful persuasion, not disregard for the law. Why not establish laws that guarantee government transparency instead? Why not elect a government that is committed to transparency?
derrida 15y ago
That would be remarkable given that the Nobel prize is awarded by Sweden he is also facing extradition to Sweden.
- cromulent 15y ago
  True, except that the peace prize laureate is selected by the Norwegian Nobel Committee.
  - derrida 15y ago
    You are right.

keyle 15y ago

That's great, but how does that help the guy get out of the mess he's in?... I think he needs official help, not some prize which promotes as much the prize giver than the receiver.

jrockway 15y ago
What mess is he in? Last I checked, he was appealing the extradition to Sweden for questioning about the "rape" allegations. Let's say he loses the appeal; he shows up in Sweden, answers some questions, and is done. The Swedish government has an amazingly weak case against him; so weak it's already been dropped once. If he doesn't lose the appeal, then he'll stay in England a free man. The US doesn't like him, but he didn't do anything illegal in the US, so that's not really a problem for him. I doubt he'll be dropping by, though.
- pyre 15y ago
  I think there is speculation that he'll get extradited from Sweden, though I don't know the specifics of why that is.
  - ErrantX 15y ago
    That can only happen if the British authorities approve, though. So if the US wanted him there is, legally, no practical difference trying to extradite him from the UK or Sweden. So it seems unlikely. I think the rumour started as part of the general theory that the Sweden allegations were a conspiracy by the US to discredit him.
    - nickik 15y ago
      legally there is no diffrence but his lawyers say that its much harder to extadite him from england than from sweden so thats where he wants to stay.
    - uriel 15y ago
      He himself has admitted it would be much easier for the US to extradite him from the UK than from Sweden.

olalonde 15y ago

Socrates is probably turning in his grave...

redthrowaway 15y ago
I'm not seeing the relation between Assange and Socrates.
- olalonde 15y ago
  I was referring to the Crito dialogue[1]. Socrates said in a dialogue with Crito: "You must either persuade [your country] or obey its orders, and endure in silence whatever it instructs you to endure... leads you into was to be wounded or killed, you must obey." Socrates probably would have referred to Assange as a villain, not as a hero, for bringing transparency through illegal means rather than persuasion. "Illegal means" might be a bit exaggerated here since he didn't commit the crimes himself but he certainly encouraged them. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crito http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crito
  - JoachimSchipper 15y ago
    Socrates favored relationships with young boys, too. Times have changed.
    - olalonde 15y ago
      Do you suggest respect for the law isn't important anymore?
      - JoachimSchipper 15y ago
        I suggest Socrates is not an authority you want to invoke on this topic. If nothing else, because he was unjustly executed partly for contempt of court. Also, while it's usually good to comply with the law, I wouldn't recommend completely delegating your ethics to the US Congress.

lukefabish 15y ago

Gloriously under-reported in Australian mainstream media. So far the ABC (Australian Broadcasting Corp.) is the only one carrying it on its front page.

deleted 15y ago
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