3 ms·

Exactly the case. Plus, I'd trust someone like Jeff Dean who is accomplished and does not have a history of crying racism and "microagressions" at the slightest

by apta 6y ago

Exactly the case. Plus, I'd trust someone like Jeff Dean who is accomplished and does not have a history of crying racism and "microagressions" at the slightest beurocratic issue. There are already a couple of posts on reddit from ex-colleagues who explained what it was like working with people like her. People are tired of "woke"ness.

microtherion 6y ago
It’s easier not to complain about behavior if you’re the perpetrator, rather than the recipient, of the behavior. I bet Jeffrey Dahmer didn’t have a history of complaining about cannibalism either, but that doesn’t necessarily make him the good guy.
- apta 6y ago
  Looking at someone's history is a good indicator. Hasn't she already threatened to sue Google barely a few months into her job? If so, I don't blame them for letting her go at the soonest possible time. She gave them the opportunity, and it was only smart of them to take it.
- Scea91 6y ago
  Based on what exactly do you imply that Jeff Dean is a perpetrator of racism? Because he is a white dude? Isn't that ironic?
  - microtherion 6y ago
    From what I have read about the affair, e.g. the latest "setting the record straight" blog post linked from the article, I have strong reasons to believe that the paper in question: 1. Did in fact go through and pass the internal approval process that he implied it didn't. 2. Was then subjected to a second, intransparent "review" that is not customary practice at Google. 3. The results of that "review" were presented to the author as a decree (which also is not customary practice). 4. And when the author subsequently protested that she would not work under such rules (as well she should) that was taken as a pretext to let her go — without even involving her direct manager. Under those circumstances, Dean's response is misleading and evasive, a practice often characterized as "gaslighting" or, in the term that the grandparent comment ridiculed, a "micro-aggression". It's not about whether you're a "white dude", it's what rules you set for "white dudes" vs. "non-white non-dudes".
    - oh_sigh 6y ago
      Those 4 points are all theories of yours - I wonder - where does Timnit's previous employment at Google and published papers fit into the theory? Why would they publish multiple of her papers on basically the same exact subject, but then decide they need to stop her at all costs for this paper? Did Jeff Dean think Timnit was a white dude and so let her publish, but when he found out she was a brown woman, he said he cannot stand for this?
      - microtherion 6y ago
        > Those 4 points are all theories of yours These 4 points were all taken from the blog post I referenced, which I found well documented and thus credible: https://googlewalkout.medium.com/setting-the-record-straight-isupporttimnit-believeblackwomen-5d7bbfe4ed90 https://googlewalkout.medium.com/setting-the-record-straight... > Why would they publish multiple of her papers on basically the same exact subject, but then decide they need to stop her at all costs for this paper? You tell me. If they were truly on "basically the same exact subject", there can't really be a scientific explanation for some to be publishable and others not, can there?
        oh_sigh 6y ago
        > If they were truly on "basically the same exact subject", there can't really be a scientific explanation for some to be publishable and others not, can there Or, your theories are flawed in some manner and don't actually capture the truth. I'm asking you how previous behavior would fit into the theories that you yourself believe.

by apta 6y ago

microtherion 6y ago

It’s easier not to complain about behavior if you’re the perpetrator, rather than the recipient, of the behavior. I bet Jeffrey Dahmer didn’t have a history of complaining about cannibalism either, but that doesn’t necessarily make him the good guy.

apta 6y ago
Looking at someone's history is a good indicator. Hasn't she already threatened to sue Google barely a few months into her job? If so, I don't blame them for letting her go at the soonest possible time. She gave them the opportunity, and it was only smart of them to take it.
Scea91 6y ago
Based on what exactly do you imply that Jeff Dean is a perpetrator of racism? Because he is a white dude? Isn't that ironic?
- microtherion 6y ago
  From what I have read about the affair, e.g. the latest "setting the record straight" blog post linked from the article, I have strong reasons to believe that the paper in question: 1. Did in fact go through and pass the internal approval process that he implied it didn't. 2. Was then subjected to a second, intransparent "review" that is not customary practice at Google. 3. The results of that "review" were presented to the author as a decree (which also is not customary practice). 4. And when the author subsequently protested that she would not work under such rules (as well she should) that was taken as a pretext to let her go — without even involving her direct manager. Under those circumstances, Dean's response is misleading and evasive, a practice often characterized as "gaslighting" or, in the term that the grandparent comment ridiculed, a "micro-aggression". It's not about whether you're a "white dude", it's what rules you set for "white dudes" vs. "non-white non-dudes".
  - oh_sigh 6y ago
    Those 4 points are all theories of yours - I wonder - where does Timnit's previous employment at Google and published papers fit into the theory? Why would they publish multiple of her papers on basically the same exact subject, but then decide they need to stop her at all costs for this paper? Did Jeff Dean think Timnit was a white dude and so let her publish, but when he found out she was a brown woman, he said he cannot stand for this?
    - microtherion 6y ago
      > Those 4 points are all theories of yours These 4 points were all taken from the blog post I referenced, which I found well documented and thus credible: https://googlewalkout.medium.com/setting-the-record-straight-isupporttimnit-believeblackwomen-5d7bbfe4ed90 https://googlewalkout.medium.com/setting-the-record-straight... > Why would they publish multiple of her papers on basically the same exact subject, but then decide they need to stop her at all costs for this paper? You tell me. If they were truly on "basically the same exact subject", there can't really be a scientific explanation for some to be publishable and others not, can there?
      - oh_sigh 6y ago
        > If they were truly on "basically the same exact subject", there can't really be a scientific explanation for some to be publishable and others not, can there Or, your theories are flawed in some manner and don't actually capture the truth. I'm asking you how previous behavior would fit into the theories that you yourself believe.