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If we were talking about Linus Torvalds, Jim Keller or Raja Koduri someone who is actually an industry driver then sure. These are individuals who have had con

by kd913 6y ago

If we were talking about Linus Torvalds, Jim Keller or Raja Koduri someone who is actually an industry driver then sure. These are individuals who have had considerable impact on a piece of technology whose names I can recognize for the tech they built. I have no idea what or how this individual matters at all or the tech that she is relevant in. Not everyone at FAANG are industry leaders, and there are several cogs just like at IBM. I fail to see why I should care for every individual starling who can't stand out other than the company they work for. This random individual along with James Damore and that random FB grad are not on the same level. Your arguments tell me more that FAANG should be broken apart. Public attention and scrutiny would achieve nothing in affecting Google's decision making here.

morelisp 6y ago
My entire reply is about Google (not even specifically Google!), but you're still focusing on Gebru. > I have no idea Why are you commenting then?
- kd913 6y ago
  Because my original point still stands? In articles discussing Raja, Jim, Linus and their various moves. The first paragraph introduces into great detail about their impacts relating to their contributions to x86, GPUs or the kernel. This individual's highlight appears to be her employment at Google. She is an AI ethics researcher? So what makes her important or an 'industry leader'? Why should I care and why is Google's dirty laundry here in the open?
  - morelisp 6y ago
    I will try to shorten my first reply. > Why should I care and why is Google's dirty laundry here in the open? Because Google is big and powerful and how Google treats its workers matters to everyone in the software industry.
    - kd913 6y ago
      >Because Google is big and powerful and how Google treats its workers matters to everyone in the software industry. Nonsense, it affects the people at Google. If it affects everyone in the software industry, feel free to explain precisely how.
      - lm28469 6y ago
        Because leaders are... leaders. Google doesn't exist in a vacuum, take crazy jobs interviews for example, it started in companies like Google and now even the smallest startup will make you go through Google like interviews. Just the fact that we're all talking about it proves it's bigger than just internal affairs. If it was as clear cut as you seem to imagine nobody would talk about it
        kd913 6y ago
        Google is a leader in several areas. She isn't. This could happen at any other company and the outcome would be the same. The fact that she was fired does not make this news worthy. The disagreement is the interesting aspect, but that doesn't seem to be the focus of the article.
jasonwatkinspdx 6y ago
I'm pretty sure you know the name Jeff Dean, who seems to have taken a personal role in this drama. It's rather telling that your entire perspective is to demonize and diminish Gebru, who you don't even bother to name in your criticisms. Why are you trying to establish some "level" distinction between Damore and Gebru. These aren't even remotely comparable situations. Public attention and scrutiny is why we're talking about this, and have been, for a week now. It's pretty head in the sand to think this doesn't have impact.
- kd913 6y ago
  I didn't know who Jeff Dean is, other than the fact that he is another AI researcher at Google. My work involves low-latency network drivers, not at all the field of AI. Fine, there are AI stars too, but the article could lead about what they have done and why they are important no? A discussion involving Jim Keller would lead to his contributions to x86, Apple A10 series, Tesla chips and Zen. I don't want a hand wavy discussion over ethics and AI, I want an explanation as to what they have contributed to the field that justifies why their opinion matters. >Why are you trying to establish some "level" distinction between Damore and Gebru. I am trying to establish that these random individuals don't matter to me. They are not known for their tech contributions but for the dirty laundry being exposed to the public. These individuals from an external perspective seem to be known for being employed at Google and for some public controversy that cannot be influenced externally. My point is why are these individuals in the news? Why should I care? They aren't industry leaders and from my perspective appear about as important as 'GE fires engine tester'.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - systemBuilder 6y ago
    Jeff Dean invented BigTable that powers search, was a main author of the Google Mapreduce paper, and invented the tech that took Google translate from 85% accuracy to 96%. He is a big deal, bigger than linus, keller, kodhuri combined. The latter 3 make incremental changes whereas Dean is known for revolutionary discoveries (okay not StuckTable).

by kd913 6y ago

morelisp 6y ago

My entire reply is about Google (not even specifically Google!), but you're still focusing on Gebru. > I have no idea Why are you commenting then?

kd913 6y ago
Because my original point still stands? In articles discussing Raja, Jim, Linus and their various moves. The first paragraph introduces into great detail about their impacts relating to their contributions to x86, GPUs or the kernel. This individual's highlight appears to be her employment at Google. She is an AI ethics researcher? So what makes her important or an 'industry leader'? Why should I care and why is Google's dirty laundry here in the open?
- morelisp 6y ago
  I will try to shorten my first reply. > Why should I care and why is Google's dirty laundry here in the open? Because Google is big and powerful and how Google treats its workers matters to everyone in the software industry.
  - kd913 6y ago
    >Because Google is big and powerful and how Google treats its workers matters to everyone in the software industry. Nonsense, it affects the people at Google. If it affects everyone in the software industry, feel free to explain precisely how.
    - lm28469 6y ago
      Because leaders are... leaders. Google doesn't exist in a vacuum, take crazy jobs interviews for example, it started in companies like Google and now even the smallest startup will make you go through Google like interviews. Just the fact that we're all talking about it proves it's bigger than just internal affairs. If it was as clear cut as you seem to imagine nobody would talk about it
      - kd913 6y ago
        Google is a leader in several areas. She isn't. This could happen at any other company and the outcome would be the same. The fact that she was fired does not make this news worthy. The disagreement is the interesting aspect, but that doesn't seem to be the focus of the article.

jasonwatkinspdx 6y ago

I'm pretty sure you know the name Jeff Dean, who seems to have taken a personal role in this drama. It's rather telling that your entire perspective is to demonize and diminish Gebru, who you don't even bother to name in your criticisms. Why are you trying to establish some "level" distinction between Damore and Gebru. These aren't even remotely comparable situations. Public attention and scrutiny is why we're talking about this, and have been, for a week now. It's pretty head in the sand to think this doesn't have impact.

kd913 6y ago
I didn't know who Jeff Dean is, other than the fact that he is another AI researcher at Google. My work involves low-latency network drivers, not at all the field of AI. Fine, there are AI stars too, but the article could lead about what they have done and why they are important no? A discussion involving Jim Keller would lead to his contributions to x86, Apple A10 series, Tesla chips and Zen. I don't want a hand wavy discussion over ethics and AI, I want an explanation as to what they have contributed to the field that justifies why their opinion matters. >Why are you trying to establish some "level" distinction between Damore and Gebru. I am trying to establish that these random individuals don't matter to me. They are not known for their tech contributions but for the dirty laundry being exposed to the public. These individuals from an external perspective seem to be known for being employed at Google and for some public controversy that cannot be influenced externally. My point is why are these individuals in the news? Why should I care? They aren't industry leaders and from my perspective appear about as important as 'GE fires engine tester'.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- systemBuilder 6y ago
  Jeff Dean invented BigTable that powers search, was a main author of the Google Mapreduce paper, and invented the tech that took Google translate from 85% accuracy to 96%. He is a big deal, bigger than linus, keller, kodhuri combined. The latter 3 make incremental changes whereas Dean is known for revolutionary discoveries (okay not StuckTable).