4 ms·

The following are equivalent: - I will look for work elsewhere - I will work on a last date - My last date is <X> - This job isn't working out - I don't wa

The following are equivalent: - I will look for work elsewhere - I will work on a last date - My last date is <X> - This job isn't working out - I don't want to work here anymore - I offer my resignation - I quit

shkkmo 6y ago
Legally speaking, that is not true at all. Edit: if you say "I don't want to work here anymore." And you get your "resignation date moved up" you still get your unemployment benefits because you were fired.
- BeetleB 6y ago
  > if you say "I don't want to work here anymore." And you get your "resignation date moved up" you still get your unemployment benefits because you were fired. I can't speak for California, but in my state, if you are fired and not laid off[1], you don't get unemployment benefits. I've anecdotally heard this is also the case in California. However, I've also heard that many tech companies state they will not dispute unemployment claims when fired (my company certainly says that), so people in these "privileged" companies often do collect unemployment even when fired. [1] I hope people know the difference.
  - pseudalopex 6y ago
    In California and other states fired just means it was against the employee's will. Employees fired for misconduct don't get unemployment benefits.
  - ohwaitnvm 6y ago
    I think there is a term in California - fired “with cause” - but I’m not sure if that has bearing on unemployment eligibility.
    - BeetleB 6y ago
      Generally, if you are fired for poor performance, or poor conduct, you are not eligible for unemployment benefits. If the company is eliminating your position or downsizing, then you are. There might be specific criteria that needs to be met for each, so details matter. My guess is the reason my employer does not dispute unemployment claims is they've calculated that the cost to dispute them exceeds the amount they expect their unemployment insurance contributions to go up.
  - itsdrewmiller 6y ago
    This is hard to believe - which state are you in? Are you confusing "fired" (generally used for any non-layoff termination) with "for cause"?
KittenInABox 6y ago
I've stated before that I don't want to work at a job without intending to actually leave the job or having a last date. In those cases I was venting and was burnt out. I've even admitted this to managers I could trust to talk about how to unburn me instead of declaring I've 'resigned', because I bring a lot of value to teams I'm on.
- actuator 6y ago
  I am quite sure you didn't send email to fellow employees asking them to immediately stop work on the projects they were working on. I am assuming that was the red line, I am not a manager but it would have been for me.
  - KittenInABox 6y ago
    That's a completely separate issue as to whether or a set of statements all mean the same thing. I entirely agree that there was serious unprofessional behavior in venting out to a listserv of direct reports. But that doesn't mean all the criticisms laid out are correct, such as "saying X means Y".
  - jrockway 6y ago
    So, that's getting fired for cause, maybe, but not resigning. Google's official story is that she resigned. You have to stretch things pretty far to say that taking an action that might get you fired is the same as resigning. Resigning is handing in your badge and laptop and leaving the building. Getting fired is being called into a 4PM Friday meeting with HR and they escort you from the building afterwards. I am not really even sure how meaningful an email telling your coworkers to stop working on their projects is. It really depends on the tone. When I was at Google, I used the internal social media extensively. I am sure at some point someone said something like "I'm really depressed about how my project is going" and I would reply with something like "You should join my team! I have a req!" That's technically telling someone to stop working on their project, but is a completely acceptable thing to do. Ultimately the exact details matter, and we don't have them.
- NearAP 6y ago
abea 6y ago
Ridiculously untrue. This specific case aside, if you are a manager and see all of these as equivalent statements, it's a pretty clear sign you don't care about your team.
omgwtfbyobbq 6y ago
I've never regarded those as equivalent. Some are equivalent to others, but they range from expressing displeasure about your job to flat out quitting.
VikingCoder 6y ago
"My last date is <X>, BECAUSE I'M RETIRING." If you immediately fire someone for that, that may be illegal age discrimination. Cheers.
- tantalor 6y ago
  I didn't say anything about "immediately firing" anybody, cheers.
  - VikingCoder 6y ago
    When someone says "I quit," (which you equated it to) I stop paying their paycheck. What do you do?
bnj 6y ago
I'm really struggling to understand why you think these are equivalent

shkkmo 6y ago

Legally speaking, that is not true at all. Edit: if you say "I don't want to work here anymore." And you get your "resignation date moved up" you still get your unemployment benefits because you were fired.

BeetleB 6y ago
> if you say "I don't want to work here anymore." And you get your "resignation date moved up" you still get your unemployment benefits because you were fired. I can't speak for California, but in my state, if you are fired and not laid off[1], you don't get unemployment benefits. I've anecdotally heard this is also the case in California. However, I've also heard that many tech companies state they will not dispute unemployment claims when fired (my company certainly says that), so people in these "privileged" companies often do collect unemployment even when fired. [1] I hope people know the difference.
- pseudalopex 6y ago
  In California and other states fired just means it was against the employee's will. Employees fired for misconduct don't get unemployment benefits.
- ohwaitnvm 6y ago
  I think there is a term in California - fired “with cause” - but I’m not sure if that has bearing on unemployment eligibility.
  - BeetleB 6y ago
    Generally, if you are fired for poor performance, or poor conduct, you are not eligible for unemployment benefits. If the company is eliminating your position or downsizing, then you are. There might be specific criteria that needs to be met for each, so details matter. My guess is the reason my employer does not dispute unemployment claims is they've calculated that the cost to dispute them exceeds the amount they expect their unemployment insurance contributions to go up.
- itsdrewmiller 6y ago
  This is hard to believe - which state are you in? Are you confusing "fired" (generally used for any non-layoff termination) with "for cause"?

KittenInABox 6y ago

I've stated before that I don't want to work at a job without intending to actually leave the job or having a last date. In those cases I was venting and was burnt out. I've even admitted this to managers I could trust to talk about how to unburn me instead of declaring I've 'resigned', because I bring a lot of value to teams I'm on.

actuator 6y ago
I am quite sure you didn't send email to fellow employees asking them to immediately stop work on the projects they were working on. I am assuming that was the red line, I am not a manager but it would have been for me.
- KittenInABox 6y ago
  That's a completely separate issue as to whether or a set of statements all mean the same thing. I entirely agree that there was serious unprofessional behavior in venting out to a listserv of direct reports. But that doesn't mean all the criticisms laid out are correct, such as "saying X means Y".
- jrockway 6y ago
  So, that's getting fired for cause, maybe, but not resigning. Google's official story is that she resigned. You have to stretch things pretty far to say that taking an action that might get you fired is the same as resigning. Resigning is handing in your badge and laptop and leaving the building. Getting fired is being called into a 4PM Friday meeting with HR and they escort you from the building afterwards. I am not really even sure how meaningful an email telling your coworkers to stop working on their projects is. It really depends on the tone. When I was at Google, I used the internal social media extensively. I am sure at some point someone said something like "I'm really depressed about how my project is going" and I would reply with something like "You should join my team! I have a req!" That's technically telling someone to stop working on their project, but is a completely acceptable thing to do. Ultimately the exact details matter, and we don't have them.
NearAP 6y ago

abea 6y ago

Ridiculously untrue. This specific case aside, if you are a manager and see all of these as equivalent statements, it's a pretty clear sign you don't care about your team.

omgwtfbyobbq 6y ago

I've never regarded those as equivalent. Some are equivalent to others, but they range from expressing displeasure about your job to flat out quitting.

VikingCoder 6y ago

"My last date is <X>, BECAUSE I'M RETIRING." If you immediately fire someone for that, that may be illegal age discrimination. Cheers.

tantalor 6y ago
I didn't say anything about "immediately firing" anybody, cheers.
- VikingCoder 6y ago
  When someone says "I quit," (which you equated it to) I stop paying their paycheck. What do you do?

bnj 6y ago

I'm really struggling to understand why you think these are equivalent