6 ms·

>> Yeah, I've had some friends leave (to CO and DC), but I'm skeptical of companies and VCs leaving. >> I have had older friends leave to have a family. They w

>> Yeah, I've had some friends leave (to CO and DC), but I'm skeptical of companies and VCs leaving. >> I have had older friends leave to have a family. They went to Santa Cruz, Seattle, Denver, DC, and Austin. It's a shame. The ones that stayed either are very rich where a $5M house is not an issue, or they still live with three roommates and rent without kids. Just wait until they look for interesting jobs and get 100 linked in messages from CA and like 1 or 2 from DC. (note: I live in VA just outside DC, speaking from experience.)

Apocryphon 6y ago
The main idea is that those jobs are now moving to remote, because of the pandemic?
munaf 6y ago
Exactly. An anecdote: I got an offer to leave my mid-level FAANG job to return to the Midwest for a VP role at a 200+ person company. The compensation was about 35% of my total comp, and it was maybe one of 3 companies in the area I would consider working for. Not to mention going back to cold winters, McMansions, and chain restaurants. I don't think people fully appreciate the value of unenforceable non-competes + many companies congregated in one area. No where else in the world does the labor have this level of negotiating power and flexibility. Even if it can be replicated (and I hope it is!), it won't be overnight.
- TuringNYC 6y ago
  Agreed. I think it was all OK when I was single. But the appetite to re-locate a family every 2-3 years with a job change (or employer disappearing) (changing friends, school districts, continuity) is a tall order in my humble opinion. There is an old Russian saying about how every time you move it is like a fire happened (because you lose things.)
fossuser 6y ago
Well, this entire premise is that remote work would make that more possible (I personally don't believe this though). That said, the people I know that left aren't planning to find new work (for the most part). CO does have a lot of FAANG options though and Slack was also there. They're not looking for the most interesting work at that point, they're looking to keep their job and raise a family - it's a tradeoff. Isn't that a risk to move to a place without as many employment options? Yes. The reason for that risk is you can raise kids in a nice house for $500k rather than in a tiny, old, 2 bedroom apartment for 1.5M.
- TuringNYC 6y ago
  >> They're not looking for the most interesting work at that point, they're looking to keep their job and raise a family - it's a tradeoff. >> Isn't that a risk to move to a place without as many employment options? Yes. The reason for that risk is you can raise kids in a nice house for $500k rather than in a tiny, old, 2 bedroom apartment for 1.5M. You exactly summarized my thought process three years ago. To be fair, i'm very happy here. But it is a mixed bag. Housing is great compared to the bay area, but $500k is a stretch for DC/Virginia (check it out on zillow) though not impossible, there is a ton of inventory if you are willing to drive out a bit. Unlike FAANG folks out-buying houses from you, you have lobbyists and government/intelligence contractors outbidding houses from you. Def better than Bay area though. Except i'm in one of like five growth startups in the area and there are rarely any senior positions open, and the senior workforce appears larger than the pool of interesting senior jobs. Its a huge bet on your employer in addition to the already huge bet you're making w/ taking, say, illiquid early stage stock. So your career growth is much slower. OK, so what if you are OK w/o an interesting job? Then you have plenty of options. Also, plenty of options if you're willing to be a consultant and travel, but now you're making a 2nd tradeoff. All in, very happy but not a panacea and certainly multiple tradeoffs.
  - fossuser 6y ago
    Yep, agreed - sounds like we have a similar take :). In my specific case my SO grew up in Cupertino and her family is here, so that's another element that makes it hard to leave. I'm currently doing the live with roommates bit, but it's a hard tradeoff to make. Also I saw where you work in your HN bio - do you partner with VRAD (or maybe are considering starting your own)? I've always though leveraging ML imaging software as part of a nighthawk radiology service would be really interesting. Basically hire radiologists to be part of the company (give them some equity) and leverage their readings to train the model. In a bit of a Tesla style self-driving play where you're providing the current capabilities via humans, but the ultimate goal is leveraging that to train and improve the software. My dad does neurorad so seemed like a natural fit for deep learning image recognition to me. If you're writing the reading software then you can tailor it for training too. Unrelated to that, if you're looking for more options in DC the company I work for has a major office there (feel free to connect, my email is in my profile).
gumby 6y ago
Yep, I recently got a call from a FB recruiter in Austin. One constraint was: are you willing to move to the Bay Area to work at the FB campus after lockdown ends? Why yes, I already live here.
stryan 6y ago
Your experience may be your own; I live just outside of DC as well (though on the MD side) and get bombarded with DC and MD job offers all the time. Perhaps not to the same extent as CA, but saying only 1 or 2 seems like a personal situation.
- TuringNYC 6y ago
  One more thing for outsiders: Security Clearances are huge here, which really changes outcomes. @stryan Would love to chat offline if you're open? Really struggling in deciding whether I can continue to live in the region long term, despite being in love with the area and the people.
  - raunakdag 6y ago
    As someone who lives in the DMV (VA) - what’re the biggest factors influencing whether you can continue to live here long term?
    - TuringNYC 6y ago
      Not being bored or underutilized at work. Excitement about career opportunities. Room to move upwards. Hard-tech job opportunities w/o having to regress to an entry-level or mid-level role. Senior level job opportunities, w/o having to join a consulting firm (i mean, if i'm potentially traveling 4/5 days, i'm not really 'living' here anymore...) I've rolled the dice on management consulting before in my life and spent almost no time in my home city. That was great when I was 20 and not so great with a family. I do wonder whether it is different w/ DC and local projects or whether it might be different in a partyly-WFH future!
      - alexhutcheson 6y ago
        I'm hopeful Amazon's HQ2 will make a big difference for the DMV tech scene.
almost_usual 6y ago
There are a ton of companies in Austin, also no state income tax. You can always move back after you vest and sell.
- Apocryphon 6y ago
  Yeah, the previous poster seems to be completely missing out that Austin and Seattle are major tech hubs, Denver is a secondary hub, and Santa Cruz is within spitting distance to Silicon Valley. Seattle alone is probably the second most significant tech region in the country after SV and Austin is easily third or fourth.
  - almost_usual 6y ago
    Yeah, also have coworkers moving there. If my family wasn’t in the Bay I would seriously consider it.

Apocryphon 6y ago

The main idea is that those jobs are now moving to remote, because of the pandemic?

munaf 6y ago

Exactly. An anecdote: I got an offer to leave my mid-level FAANG job to return to the Midwest for a VP role at a 200+ person company. The compensation was about 35% of my total comp, and it was maybe one of 3 companies in the area I would consider working for. Not to mention going back to cold winters, McMansions, and chain restaurants. I don't think people fully appreciate the value of unenforceable non-competes + many companies congregated in one area. No where else in the world does the labor have this level of negotiating power and flexibility. Even if it can be replicated (and I hope it is!), it won't be overnight.

TuringNYC 6y ago
Agreed. I think it was all OK when I was single. But the appetite to re-locate a family every 2-3 years with a job change (or employer disappearing) (changing friends, school districts, continuity) is a tall order in my humble opinion. There is an old Russian saying about how every time you move it is like a fire happened (because you lose things.)

fossuser 6y ago

Well, this entire premise is that remote work would make that more possible (I personally don't believe this though). That said, the people I know that left aren't planning to find new work (for the most part). CO does have a lot of FAANG options though and Slack was also there. They're not looking for the most interesting work at that point, they're looking to keep their job and raise a family - it's a tradeoff. Isn't that a risk to move to a place without as many employment options? Yes. The reason for that risk is you can raise kids in a nice house for $500k rather than in a tiny, old, 2 bedroom apartment for 1.5M.

TuringNYC 6y ago
>> They're not looking for the most interesting work at that point, they're looking to keep their job and raise a family - it's a tradeoff. >> Isn't that a risk to move to a place without as many employment options? Yes. The reason for that risk is you can raise kids in a nice house for $500k rather than in a tiny, old, 2 bedroom apartment for 1.5M. You exactly summarized my thought process three years ago. To be fair, i'm very happy here. But it is a mixed bag. Housing is great compared to the bay area, but $500k is a stretch for DC/Virginia (check it out on zillow) though not impossible, there is a ton of inventory if you are willing to drive out a bit. Unlike FAANG folks out-buying houses from you, you have lobbyists and government/intelligence contractors outbidding houses from you. Def better than Bay area though. Except i'm in one of like five growth startups in the area and there are rarely any senior positions open, and the senior workforce appears larger than the pool of interesting senior jobs. Its a huge bet on your employer in addition to the already huge bet you're making w/ taking, say, illiquid early stage stock. So your career growth is much slower. OK, so what if you are OK w/o an interesting job? Then you have plenty of options. Also, plenty of options if you're willing to be a consultant and travel, but now you're making a 2nd tradeoff. All in, very happy but not a panacea and certainly multiple tradeoffs.
- fossuser 6y ago
  Yep, agreed - sounds like we have a similar take :). In my specific case my SO grew up in Cupertino and her family is here, so that's another element that makes it hard to leave. I'm currently doing the live with roommates bit, but it's a hard tradeoff to make. Also I saw where you work in your HN bio - do you partner with VRAD (or maybe are considering starting your own)? I've always though leveraging ML imaging software as part of a nighthawk radiology service would be really interesting. Basically hire radiologists to be part of the company (give them some equity) and leverage their readings to train the model. In a bit of a Tesla style self-driving play where you're providing the current capabilities via humans, but the ultimate goal is leveraging that to train and improve the software. My dad does neurorad so seemed like a natural fit for deep learning image recognition to me. If you're writing the reading software then you can tailor it for training too. Unrelated to that, if you're looking for more options in DC the company I work for has a major office there (feel free to connect, my email is in my profile).

gumby 6y ago

Yep, I recently got a call from a FB recruiter in Austin. One constraint was: are you willing to move to the Bay Area to work at the FB campus after lockdown ends? Why yes, I already live here.

stryan 6y ago

Your experience may be your own; I live just outside of DC as well (though on the MD side) and get bombarded with DC and MD job offers all the time. Perhaps not to the same extent as CA, but saying only 1 or 2 seems like a personal situation.

TuringNYC 6y ago
One more thing for outsiders: Security Clearances are huge here, which really changes outcomes. @stryan Would love to chat offline if you're open? Really struggling in deciding whether I can continue to live in the region long term, despite being in love with the area and the people.
- raunakdag 6y ago
  As someone who lives in the DMV (VA) - what’re the biggest factors influencing whether you can continue to live here long term?
  - TuringNYC 6y ago
    Not being bored or underutilized at work. Excitement about career opportunities. Room to move upwards. Hard-tech job opportunities w/o having to regress to an entry-level or mid-level role. Senior level job opportunities, w/o having to join a consulting firm (i mean, if i'm potentially traveling 4/5 days, i'm not really 'living' here anymore...) I've rolled the dice on management consulting before in my life and spent almost no time in my home city. That was great when I was 20 and not so great with a family. I do wonder whether it is different w/ DC and local projects or whether it might be different in a partyly-WFH future!
    - alexhutcheson 6y ago
      I'm hopeful Amazon's HQ2 will make a big difference for the DMV tech scene.

almost_usual 6y ago

There are a ton of companies in Austin, also no state income tax. You can always move back after you vest and sell.

Apocryphon 6y ago
Yeah, the previous poster seems to be completely missing out that Austin and Seattle are major tech hubs, Denver is a secondary hub, and Santa Cruz is within spitting distance to Silicon Valley. Seattle alone is probably the second most significant tech region in the country after SV and Austin is easily third or fourth.
- almost_usual 6y ago
  Yeah, also have coworkers moving there. If my family wasn’t in the Bay I would seriously consider it.