3 ms·

Don't they beat others because they are almost always a process generation ahead like now with 5nm?

dylan604 6y ago
At some point, the process can't get any smaller. Physics has hard rules. Once we get to that limit, improvements will have to come from elsewhere.
- colejohnson66 6y ago
  We are butting up on the physical limit, but to be fair, that’s what people have been saying for over a decade, and we keep going. According to Wolfram Alpha, 5 nanometers is ~23 silicon atoms across (~2.2 Å each). But that’s also assuming they’re actually fabricating 5 nm gates - which they’re not.
  - anfilt 6y ago
    Like if you look at the rate of down scaling it has slowed some. It's also not the size of the whole transistor it's the size/thickness of the N, P and Insulator layers that will limiting factor in FET style transistors. The oxide/insulator thickness on modern process is pretty insane. For instance for the intel 14nm++ the silicon nitride and silicon oxide layers seem to 4 to 5nm thick. -Edit- For instance here is 2 fins for from the intel 14nm++. The grains/spheres you see this image are the atoms. Some parts of the a modern transistors are even smaller than process number may let you know. https://imgur.com/a/hgeSOVV https://imgur.com/a/hgeSOVV
lhl 6y ago
Although Apple has been leading edge for a while, it's actually rather unusual for Apple to buy the entire production capacity of a new node. The A13, Qualcomm Snapdragon 865, and Mediatek Dimensity 1000L were all on DUV N7P (Hisilicon Kirin 990 5G was actually on the more advanced EUV N7+). For more information on chips and their processes: https://www.eetimes.com/apple-huawei-use-tsmc-but-their-7nm-socs-are-different/ https://www.eetimes.com/apple-huawei-use-tsmc-but-their-7nm-... Here are some benchmarks of how the A13 and 865 (and the 2020 updates) stack up: https://www.phonearena.com/news/apple-a14-vs-a13-vs-snapdragon-865-performance-comparison_id128439 https://www.phonearena.com/news/apple-a14-vs-a13-vs-snapdrag... From the charts, it looks like particularly for single-core and browser/JS performance, the Apple designs are very strong, and beat out the Qualcomm competition even on the same process node.

At some point, the process can't get any smaller. Physics has hard rules. Once we get to that limit, improvements will have to come from elsewhere.

colejohnson66 6y ago
We are butting up on the physical limit, but to be fair, that’s what people have been saying for over a decade, and we keep going. According to Wolfram Alpha, 5 nanometers is ~23 silicon atoms across (~2.2 Å each). But that’s also assuming they’re actually fabricating 5 nm gates - which they’re not.
- anfilt 6y ago
  Like if you look at the rate of down scaling it has slowed some. It's also not the size of the whole transistor it's the size/thickness of the N, P and Insulator layers that will limiting factor in FET style transistors. The oxide/insulator thickness on modern process is pretty insane. For instance for the intel 14nm++ the silicon nitride and silicon oxide layers seem to 4 to 5nm thick. -Edit- For instance here is 2 fins for from the intel 14nm++. The grains/spheres you see this image are the atoms. Some parts of the a modern transistors are even smaller than process number may let you know. https://imgur.com/a/hgeSOVV https://imgur.com/a/hgeSOVV

lhl 6y ago

Although Apple has been leading edge for a while, it's actually rather unusual for Apple to buy the entire production capacity of a new node. The A13, Qualcomm Snapdragon 865, and Mediatek Dimensity 1000L were all on DUV N7P (Hisilicon Kirin 990 5G was actually on the more advanced EUV N7+). For more information on chips and their processes: https://www.eetimes.com/apple-huawei-use-tsmc-but-their-7nm-socs-are-different/ https://www.eetimes.com/apple-huawei-use-tsmc-but-their-7nm-... Here are some benchmarks of how the A13 and 865 (and the 2020 updates) stack up: https://www.phonearena.com/news/apple-a14-vs-a13-vs-snapdragon-865-performance-comparison_id128439 https://www.phonearena.com/news/apple-a14-vs-a13-vs-snapdrag... From the charts, it looks like particularly for single-core and browser/JS performance, the Apple designs are very strong, and beat out the Qualcomm competition even on the same process node.