6 ms·

I would have loved to see the data of gas alone compared to the data when gas range is properly vented.

auslegung 6y ago
Same. I’m disappointed that CARB’s solution is to ban all gas from homes by 2022 instead of finding ways to make gas safer, ie ventilate it outside. Gas ranges cook MUCH better than electric in almost every way, so why shouldn’t we be allowed to use them if they can be used safely?
- jsperson 6y ago
  If you ever get a chance, try an induction stove. We got one because the size of the gas line into our house was marginal for running heater, hot water, and a couple of fireplaces concurrently. I just didn't want to futz with potential problems. It turned out to be a great decision. They are remarkably safe. The surface only gets hot from heat from the pan so it doesn't bake stuff on like electric/gas. It boils water just as fast as gas and is quite responsive. The only downside is that the pans must be ferrous, but that has turned out to not be too big of a deal. Also the oven is electric, which in my opinion is actually better than gas - the broiler works better in particular.
  - refurb 6y ago
    I recently switched to an induction range and so far I've considered it a downgrade from gas (maybe that will change over time). For some reason I get a buzzing sound when the stove applies current (minor). It does have the instant heat that gas does, but what I've noticed is it doesn't have the visual feedback. When cooking with gas, it's easy to tell how much you've turned the heat up or down, just look at the flame. I'll probably get used to it over time, but I miss gas at this point in time.
    - jsperson 6y ago
      Those are accurate and reasonable criticisms. I've gotten used to all that over time. I'm not a sophisticated cook by any means so my need for feedback is not boiling something over (setting of 6.5 or so does the job for mac and cheese after it's boiling). I am the family safety officer though. Love the fact that it's not a super hot surface and that I won't be running across the house after smelling gas - an actual event that could have made for a bad Thanksgiving. I'm also the cleanup guy. After three years and almost no scrubbing the surface still looks new.
      - refurb 6y ago
        There you go. I may just be an old crank who doesn't like change. I did put up with electric resistive for a long time before switching to gas and I dealt with it just fine. I'm only 1 month into inductive so let's see how things go. In the grand scheme of things I'm pretty sure I've survive. :)
    - DeRock 6y ago
      > I've noticed is it doesn't have the visual feedback Does it not have a power/intensity knob or setting that’s displayed? Even with gas ranges that’s what is used because the flame is blocked by the pot.
      - refurb 6y ago
        I can glance under the pot to see the flame. On my induction stove, 5 is medium and 6 is boiling. Not linear at all.
        robocat 6y ago
        I suspect that's a problem specific to your stove model. As you visit friend's places, see if they have different brands of inductive stovetop, and try them out if they do. Also maybe try a pot with a thicker ferrous base?
    - KineticLensman 6y ago
      I switched ~8 years ago and wouldn't go back to gas. No buzzing sound although if you listen very carefully there is a faint 'thrum' when it is active. Visual feedback is from a number (1..9) displayed per induction ring. There is also a per-hob 'h' when it is off but still considered hot. When you activate a hob you can start it at strength 4 (of 9) or 9 (full-on). Or 1 and keep pressing up or down buttons to the setting you want. I'm used to this now. Cleanability is awesome. Because the whole surface is flat, unused rings can also be used as a heat-proof surface when you have lots of hot pans that would scorch a normal work-surface. I think it keep things warm (without sticking) better than gas because the heat is better distributed over the whole bottom of a pan. Main downside is that it is useless in a power-cut.
    - buttwhole 6y ago
      refurb says>For some reason I get a buzzing sound when the stove applies current (minor).< That's the power company irradiating you nads, lowering your fertility and reducing the population. Welcome to a Brave New World! Man has cooked with fire for aeons and a few pieces of coal from the nearby railroad track do wonders to keep the nights warm on my lean-to campfire here in CA. I'll give up my coal when they pry the lumps from my cold dead hands.
  - kalleboo 6y ago
    I've used induction stoves at friends' places and at AirBnBs and I've always hated them. Possibly I just need to spend more time with one to learn it. They're super fast at boiling water, yes, but whenever I've frying stuff it seems extremely picky about alignment and eventually starts beeping at me and shutting off. I also had lots of difficulty picking a perfect power level, which is trivial with gas. The granularity in the digital controls seems too poor, or it has something to do with the thermostat not having direct contact like it does in an old electric stove? The biggest issue though is every IH stove I've used has had touch controls on the top glass panel which means if you have any spills or overflow, you can't even turn it off.
    - jader201 6y ago
      Maybe I don’t cook enough, but your biggest issue is one I never face. A) I very rarely have any spills, and B) when I do, they’re never so much that they cover the controls (which are at front and center of stove, and not by the burners themselves, which is the way mast are designed). Just seems like an odd issue for it to be your “biggest” turnoff from induction.
    - zaphoyd 6y ago
      We love our induction stoves, but definitely have had issues finding ones that have good controls. A lot of the cheap units don't have much granularity in heat settings, but the higher end ones have gas-like, nearly continuous options. All of them, high and low end, seem to be suffering (like cars) from some of the modern UX theory that if something can possibly be a touch screen it should be. We've settled for a unit that has physical, clickable, tactile buttons to control the temperature and a numeric readout that clearly states the current temp and all controls on the side, away from spills. I'd love to find an induction stove with a plan old knob for each hob though.
- dralley 6y ago
  Electric induction works pretty well. It's the resistive stoves that are crap. I dislike the fact that gas stoves typically come attached to gas ovens, and gas ovens are kinda crap. Electric/resistive actually works better there. Less moisture, less smells, more efficient, seems to heat up faster and give off less waste heat.
  - mywittyname 6y ago
    Honestly, induction works better than all but the most high-end gas ranges. The cheaper gas burners can produce the BTUs, they just do a poor job utilizing them. Induction, OTOH, puts nearly 100% of its energy into the pan.
    - chinhodado 6y ago
      Is it? It has been a while since I read it but there was an article comparing the energy efficiency of different cooking devices and even though induction cooker is at the top the efficiency is only 70%-80% something. Edit: Found it: > There are no Energy Star® certifications for ranges, but research by the U.S. Department of Energy indicates an induction cooker is 84% efficient at energy transfer, versus 74% for a smooth-top electric unit, giving it a heating performance comparable to a gas element. More significantly, induction is 90% efficient with its power use, using 2.8 kW to deliver 2.52 kW. This is a substantial improvement over electric coils, which use 2.0 kW to deliver 1.1 kW (a 55% efficiency), and over gas, which uses 3.5 kW to generate 1.75 kW (a 50% efficiency). https://insteading.com/blog/energy-efficient-induction-cooking/ https://insteading.com/blog/energy-efficient-induction-cooki...
      - mywittyname 6y ago
        So with many gas ranges, most of the BTUs produced go up past the side of the pan and into the exhaust vent, rather than getting absorbed by the pan and used to heat your food. Fancy Wolf and Vulcan ranges have burner designs that mitigate this issue, but I've never see them on anything cheaper than a few thousand dollars. OTOH, even a basic GE induction range has almost no heat waste. So while a burner might only be rated for 10k BTUs, all of that heat is going into your pan. Which is how they do things like boil water in 2 minutes. The biggest issue with induction is that the larger ones have enormous power requirements.
- asix66 6y ago
  Gas is NOT “much better”. When boiling a pot of water, induction is 74 percent efficient at transforming and transferring input energy to the water, and the gas range comes in at 32 percent. The induction method was 32 percent faster and consumed 57 percent less energy. [1] We have an induction cooktop, and it’s amazing how quickly it can bring liquids to a boil. The only thing I can see that gas has over induction electric is durability. You can slam pans down without worry of breaking the cooktop. Useful in a commercial setting, but at home I’d take induction over gas any day. [1] https://www.treehugger.com/which-more-energy-efficient-cooking-gas-or-induction-4858206 https://www.treehugger.com/which-more-energy-efficient-cooki...
- crazygringo 6y ago
  > Gas ranges cook MUCH better than electric in almost every way Not modern electric ones. I cook a lot, and I moved from a kitchen with a modern electric range, to a gas one... and it was a definite downgrade. Quite simply, modern electric ranges will heat your pan faster than gas ones can. It's seriously crazy. And of course they heat more evenly, instead of in a single "ring" in the middle or outside of your pan. I'm not even talking about expensive inductive ranges. I'm talking about electric resistance ones -- but modern ones that are a single smooth surface of glass/ceramic. The only change you have to get used to is that if you need to instantly reduce the heat, you need to move the pan off the burner rather than just turn it off. But that's just a change in habit. Also modern glass-top ranges are infinitely easier to clean. Just a single smooth surface.
  - bitwize 6y ago
    Electric glass-cooktop ranges also provide added benefit to landlords. All the landlord needs to do is require that the tenant leave the range in pristine condition or forfeit the cost of replacing the cooktop from their security deposit. Since it's virtually impossible for a person who actually cooks to leave the cooktop in like-new condition after a year -- even with special cooktop cleansers -- you may never have to pay a security deposit back in full, ever again!
    - mattgreenrocks 6y ago
      I've been using Barkeeper's Friend to clean mine since we started. It seems quite effective, though impossible to get it back to absolute pristine condition.
    - rascul 6y ago
      This isn't generally true in the US. Rental laws typically allow for normal wear and tear.
  - com2kid 6y ago
    > Not modern electric ones. I cook a lot, and I moved from a kitchen with a modern electric range, to a gas one... and it was a definite downgrade. My only concern is how well a wok will heat up on induction. Gas has the benefit of wrapping around the wok, I worry that induction won't do that. :/ I hate the smooth glass electric stoves, if a pan is even slightly warped it won't work. I've waited 20+ minutes for a pot of water to boil on an electric glass top because the pot had a slight bow to it so only a tiny fraction sat on the actual stove. Also the last glass top I had got messed up the first time a sugary liquid over boiled and spilled on it. Never could get it looking brand new again (and most glass tops I've seen have stains, even after being vigorously cleaned by professionals!)
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  >so why shouldn’t we be allowed to use them if they can be used safely? Because California generally decides these things not based on whether they can be done safely, but whether they can be done unsafely. If someone could be harmed by something then nobody can have that something. That's just how they do things.
  - auslegung 6y ago
    Then they should ban living. It can be done very unsafely.
coffeefirst 6y ago
Right. And there's going to be a big difference between new appliances and 40-year-machinery that's still in old houses. It's worth splitting that out.

Same. I’m disappointed that CARB’s solution is to ban all gas from homes by 2022 instead of finding ways to make gas safer, ie ventilate it outside. Gas ranges cook MUCH better than electric in almost every way, so why shouldn’t we be allowed to use them if they can be used safely?

jsperson 6y ago
If you ever get a chance, try an induction stove. We got one because the size of the gas line into our house was marginal for running heater, hot water, and a couple of fireplaces concurrently. I just didn't want to futz with potential problems. It turned out to be a great decision. They are remarkably safe. The surface only gets hot from heat from the pan so it doesn't bake stuff on like electric/gas. It boils water just as fast as gas and is quite responsive. The only downside is that the pans must be ferrous, but that has turned out to not be too big of a deal. Also the oven is electric, which in my opinion is actually better than gas - the broiler works better in particular.
- refurb 6y ago
  I recently switched to an induction range and so far I've considered it a downgrade from gas (maybe that will change over time). For some reason I get a buzzing sound when the stove applies current (minor). It does have the instant heat that gas does, but what I've noticed is it doesn't have the visual feedback. When cooking with gas, it's easy to tell how much you've turned the heat up or down, just look at the flame. I'll probably get used to it over time, but I miss gas at this point in time.
  - jsperson 6y ago
    Those are accurate and reasonable criticisms. I've gotten used to all that over time. I'm not a sophisticated cook by any means so my need for feedback is not boiling something over (setting of 6.5 or so does the job for mac and cheese after it's boiling). I am the family safety officer though. Love the fact that it's not a super hot surface and that I won't be running across the house after smelling gas - an actual event that could have made for a bad Thanksgiving. I'm also the cleanup guy. After three years and almost no scrubbing the surface still looks new.
    - refurb 6y ago
      There you go. I may just be an old crank who doesn't like change. I did put up with electric resistive for a long time before switching to gas and I dealt with it just fine. I'm only 1 month into inductive so let's see how things go. In the grand scheme of things I'm pretty sure I've survive. :)
  - DeRock 6y ago
    > I've noticed is it doesn't have the visual feedback Does it not have a power/intensity knob or setting that’s displayed? Even with gas ranges that’s what is used because the flame is blocked by the pot.
    - refurb 6y ago
      I can glance under the pot to see the flame. On my induction stove, 5 is medium and 6 is boiling. Not linear at all.
      - robocat 6y ago
        I suspect that's a problem specific to your stove model. As you visit friend's places, see if they have different brands of inductive stovetop, and try them out if they do. Also maybe try a pot with a thicker ferrous base?
  - KineticLensman 6y ago
    I switched ~8 years ago and wouldn't go back to gas. No buzzing sound although if you listen very carefully there is a faint 'thrum' when it is active. Visual feedback is from a number (1..9) displayed per induction ring. There is also a per-hob 'h' when it is off but still considered hot. When you activate a hob you can start it at strength 4 (of 9) or 9 (full-on). Or 1 and keep pressing up or down buttons to the setting you want. I'm used to this now. Cleanability is awesome. Because the whole surface is flat, unused rings can also be used as a heat-proof surface when you have lots of hot pans that would scorch a normal work-surface. I think it keep things warm (without sticking) better than gas because the heat is better distributed over the whole bottom of a pan. Main downside is that it is useless in a power-cut.
  - buttwhole 6y ago
    refurb says>For some reason I get a buzzing sound when the stove applies current (minor).< That's the power company irradiating you nads, lowering your fertility and reducing the population. Welcome to a Brave New World! Man has cooked with fire for aeons and a few pieces of coal from the nearby railroad track do wonders to keep the nights warm on my lean-to campfire here in CA. I'll give up my coal when they pry the lumps from my cold dead hands.
- kalleboo 6y ago
  I've used induction stoves at friends' places and at AirBnBs and I've always hated them. Possibly I just need to spend more time with one to learn it. They're super fast at boiling water, yes, but whenever I've frying stuff it seems extremely picky about alignment and eventually starts beeping at me and shutting off. I also had lots of difficulty picking a perfect power level, which is trivial with gas. The granularity in the digital controls seems too poor, or it has something to do with the thermostat not having direct contact like it does in an old electric stove? The biggest issue though is every IH stove I've used has had touch controls on the top glass panel which means if you have any spills or overflow, you can't even turn it off.
  - jader201 6y ago
    Maybe I don’t cook enough, but your biggest issue is one I never face. A) I very rarely have any spills, and B) when I do, they’re never so much that they cover the controls (which are at front and center of stove, and not by the burners themselves, which is the way mast are designed). Just seems like an odd issue for it to be your “biggest” turnoff from induction.
  - zaphoyd 6y ago
    We love our induction stoves, but definitely have had issues finding ones that have good controls. A lot of the cheap units don't have much granularity in heat settings, but the higher end ones have gas-like, nearly continuous options. All of them, high and low end, seem to be suffering (like cars) from some of the modern UX theory that if something can possibly be a touch screen it should be. We've settled for a unit that has physical, clickable, tactile buttons to control the temperature and a numeric readout that clearly states the current temp and all controls on the side, away from spills. I'd love to find an induction stove with a plan old knob for each hob though.
dralley 6y ago
Electric induction works pretty well. It's the resistive stoves that are crap. I dislike the fact that gas stoves typically come attached to gas ovens, and gas ovens are kinda crap. Electric/resistive actually works better there. Less moisture, less smells, more efficient, seems to heat up faster and give off less waste heat.
- mywittyname 6y ago
  Honestly, induction works better than all but the most high-end gas ranges. The cheaper gas burners can produce the BTUs, they just do a poor job utilizing them. Induction, OTOH, puts nearly 100% of its energy into the pan.
  - chinhodado 6y ago
    Is it? It has been a while since I read it but there was an article comparing the energy efficiency of different cooking devices and even though induction cooker is at the top the efficiency is only 70%-80% something. Edit: Found it: > There are no Energy Star® certifications for ranges, but research by the U.S. Department of Energy indicates an induction cooker is 84% efficient at energy transfer, versus 74% for a smooth-top electric unit, giving it a heating performance comparable to a gas element. More significantly, induction is 90% efficient with its power use, using 2.8 kW to deliver 2.52 kW. This is a substantial improvement over electric coils, which use 2.0 kW to deliver 1.1 kW (a 55% efficiency), and over gas, which uses 3.5 kW to generate 1.75 kW (a 50% efficiency). https://insteading.com/blog/energy-efficient-induction-cooking/ https://insteading.com/blog/energy-efficient-induction-cooki...
    - mywittyname 6y ago
      So with many gas ranges, most of the BTUs produced go up past the side of the pan and into the exhaust vent, rather than getting absorbed by the pan and used to heat your food. Fancy Wolf and Vulcan ranges have burner designs that mitigate this issue, but I've never see them on anything cheaper than a few thousand dollars. OTOH, even a basic GE induction range has almost no heat waste. So while a burner might only be rated for 10k BTUs, all of that heat is going into your pan. Which is how they do things like boil water in 2 minutes. The biggest issue with induction is that the larger ones have enormous power requirements.
asix66 6y ago
Gas is NOT “much better”. When boiling a pot of water, induction is 74 percent efficient at transforming and transferring input energy to the water, and the gas range comes in at 32 percent. The induction method was 32 percent faster and consumed 57 percent less energy. [1] We have an induction cooktop, and it’s amazing how quickly it can bring liquids to a boil. The only thing I can see that gas has over induction electric is durability. You can slam pans down without worry of breaking the cooktop. Useful in a commercial setting, but at home I’d take induction over gas any day. [1] https://www.treehugger.com/which-more-energy-efficient-cooking-gas-or-induction-4858206 https://www.treehugger.com/which-more-energy-efficient-cooki...
crazygringo 6y ago
> Gas ranges cook MUCH better than electric in almost every way Not modern electric ones. I cook a lot, and I moved from a kitchen with a modern electric range, to a gas one... and it was a definite downgrade. Quite simply, modern electric ranges will heat your pan faster than gas ones can. It's seriously crazy. And of course they heat more evenly, instead of in a single "ring" in the middle or outside of your pan. I'm not even talking about expensive inductive ranges. I'm talking about electric resistance ones -- but modern ones that are a single smooth surface of glass/ceramic. The only change you have to get used to is that if you need to instantly reduce the heat, you need to move the pan off the burner rather than just turn it off. But that's just a change in habit. Also modern glass-top ranges are infinitely easier to clean. Just a single smooth surface.
- bitwize 6y ago
  Electric glass-cooktop ranges also provide added benefit to landlords. All the landlord needs to do is require that the tenant leave the range in pristine condition or forfeit the cost of replacing the cooktop from their security deposit. Since it's virtually impossible for a person who actually cooks to leave the cooktop in like-new condition after a year -- even with special cooktop cleansers -- you may never have to pay a security deposit back in full, ever again!
  - mattgreenrocks 6y ago
    I've been using Barkeeper's Friend to clean mine since we started. It seems quite effective, though impossible to get it back to absolute pristine condition.
  - rascul 6y ago
    This isn't generally true in the US. Rental laws typically allow for normal wear and tear.
- com2kid 6y ago
  > Not modern electric ones. I cook a lot, and I moved from a kitchen with a modern electric range, to a gas one... and it was a definite downgrade. My only concern is how well a wok will heat up on induction. Gas has the benefit of wrapping around the wok, I worry that induction won't do that. :/ I hate the smooth glass electric stoves, if a pan is even slightly warped it won't work. I've waited 20+ minutes for a pot of water to boil on an electric glass top because the pot had a slight bow to it so only a tiny fraction sat on the actual stove. Also the last glass top I had got messed up the first time a sugary liquid over boiled and spilled on it. Never could get it looking brand new again (and most glass tops I've seen have stains, even after being vigorously cleaned by professionals!)
throwaway0a5e 6y ago
>so why shouldn’t we be allowed to use them if they can be used safely? Because California generally decides these things not based on whether they can be done safely, but whether they can be done unsafely. If someone could be harmed by something then nobody can have that something. That's just how they do things.
- auslegung 6y ago
  Then they should ban living. It can be done very unsafely.

coffeefirst 6y ago

Right. And there's going to be a big difference between new appliances and 40-year-machinery that's still in old houses. It's worth splitting that out.