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With all this talk of even more cores, how does binning work with SoCs? That is, CPU manufacturers can bin individual processors into different tiers depending

With all this talk of even more cores, how does binning work with SoCs? That is, CPU manufacturers can bin individual processors into different tiers depending on how they perform. What is binning like for SoCs, since they are more integrated? Do you bin the whole SoC?

mortenjorck 6y ago
At least right now, Apple only bins the M1 on graphics cores (7 vs. 8). My guess is that those have the most complex lithography, so it would make sense that those would be the biggest yield variable. My guess is that any multivariate binning will be lowest-common denominator, e.g. an 8-performance core / 12-GPU core part with a single, second-tier bin of 6 performance cores and 10 GPU cores.
013a 6y ago
They're already binning the M1 between the two models of the Macbook Air; one has a 7 core GPU, the other has an 8 core. They haven't outright said this is due to binning, but it seems very likely. Will probably be similar for upper-end models, but more CPU variations as well. They're fabbing with TSMC, which has a really established history in high yields. Just think about the A13/A14 CPUs, which are probably the most voluminous single CPU models every fabricated by a company, yet have never been subject to binning to other lower or higher end models. As the chips get more complicated naturally there will be more fabrication issues, so I expect we'll see more binning, but it doesn't look like there's much cause for concern.
- spacedcowboy 6y ago
  Yep, TSMC has an 87% yield[1] at their "5nm" tier - better than at their 7nm tier, in fact. [1]: https://www.anandtech.com/show/16028/better-yield-on-5nm-than-7nm-tsmc-update-on-defect-rates-for-n5 https://www.anandtech.com/show/16028/better-yield-on-5nm-tha...
- RotsiserMho 6y ago
  I wonder if they do bin them though, just not for iPhones or iPads. Perhaps today's A13/A14s that have small defects are tomorrow's Apple TV or HomePod CPUs.
  - faitswulff 6y ago
    That would make them incredibly overpowered, wouldn't it? A quick look in ifixit's HomePod teardown (2018) reveals an Apple A8 processor, last seen in the iPhone 6 (released 2014): https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/HomePod+Teardown/103133 https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/HomePod+Teardown/103133 I wonder how long they manufacture their processor lines for.
    - saagarjha 6y ago
      Apple TV might get it; those devices usually processors that are within a few years of their flagships'.
dsr_ 6y ago
The good news is that different parts of an SoC can run at different clock rates, and outside of the CPU/GPU it's a much more reliable world. Yes, you bin the whole SoC; but all the performance differences are expected to be concentrated in the CPU and GPU. Expect a high bin where all cores and all GPU subprocessors are working, a medium bin where 1 or 2 CPU cores and 10% of the GPU is either missing or running at a lower frequencey, and a value bin where perhaps half the CPU cores and up to half the GPU are downgraded.
greedo 6y ago
The cheaper MacBook Air has 7 GPU cores instead of 8 as on the MBP. This is assumed to be the result of binning.

mortenjorck 6y ago

At least right now, Apple only bins the M1 on graphics cores (7 vs. 8). My guess is that those have the most complex lithography, so it would make sense that those would be the biggest yield variable. My guess is that any multivariate binning will be lowest-common denominator, e.g. an 8-performance core / 12-GPU core part with a single, second-tier bin of 6 performance cores and 10 GPU cores.

013a 6y ago

They're already binning the M1 between the two models of the Macbook Air; one has a 7 core GPU, the other has an 8 core. They haven't outright said this is due to binning, but it seems very likely. Will probably be similar for upper-end models, but more CPU variations as well. They're fabbing with TSMC, which has a really established history in high yields. Just think about the A13/A14 CPUs, which are probably the most voluminous single CPU models every fabricated by a company, yet have never been subject to binning to other lower or higher end models. As the chips get more complicated naturally there will be more fabrication issues, so I expect we'll see more binning, but it doesn't look like there's much cause for concern.

spacedcowboy 6y ago
Yep, TSMC has an 87% yield[1] at their "5nm" tier - better than at their 7nm tier, in fact. [1]: https://www.anandtech.com/show/16028/better-yield-on-5nm-than-7nm-tsmc-update-on-defect-rates-for-n5 https://www.anandtech.com/show/16028/better-yield-on-5nm-tha...
RotsiserMho 6y ago
I wonder if they do bin them though, just not for iPhones or iPads. Perhaps today's A13/A14s that have small defects are tomorrow's Apple TV or HomePod CPUs.
- faitswulff 6y ago
  That would make them incredibly overpowered, wouldn't it? A quick look in ifixit's HomePod teardown (2018) reveals an Apple A8 processor, last seen in the iPhone 6 (released 2014): https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/HomePod+Teardown/103133 https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/HomePod+Teardown/103133 I wonder how long they manufacture their processor lines for.
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    Apple TV might get it; those devices usually processors that are within a few years of their flagships'.

dsr_ 6y ago

The good news is that different parts of an SoC can run at different clock rates, and outside of the CPU/GPU it's a much more reliable world. Yes, you bin the whole SoC; but all the performance differences are expected to be concentrated in the CPU and GPU. Expect a high bin where all cores and all GPU subprocessors are working, a medium bin where 1 or 2 CPU cores and 10% of the GPU is either missing or running at a lower frequencey, and a value bin where perhaps half the CPU cores and up to half the GPU are downgraded.

greedo 6y ago

The cheaper MacBook Air has 7 GPU cores instead of 8 as on the MBP. This is assumed to be the result of binning.