5 ms·

> We were the first country to legalize porn [...] When was porn illegal in other countries?

by tpush 6y ago

kevingadd 6y ago
Many countries still have obscenity laws, and the US had stringent ones for a while. Google Larry Flynt. He spent time in jail. Canada has restrictive laws regarding some porn which is legal in other countries, they've arrested people over it.
scottlocklin 6y ago
It's still illegal in many[0]. And there are good arguments it should be illegal in more[1]. Picking "we made porn cummies more widely available" .... not the best example of your country being responsible for human progress. Great way to pacify your population though. [0] example: https://www.worldnomads.com/travel-safety/southeast-asia/singapore/singapore-against-the-law https://www.worldnomads.com/travel-safety/southeast-asia/sin... [1] https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/ https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/
- claudiawerner 6y ago
  >And there are good arguments it should be illegal in more[1]. While it's certainly worth debating and discussing, the liberal paradigm in law proscribes that we should only make laws in certain circumstances under specific notions of harm, and the mere risk of harm is not usually sufficient. In addition, it is neither clear that legislation is the route to take, and several feminist critics of porn have tempered their claims and goals. Before even discussing this matter, never mind mentioning legislation, you should be clear on how you define porn and the extent to which the research on porn is consonant with that definition. It's too easy to think that all porn fits in one bucket while today we have everything from hentai to fanfiction to online roleplay to audio recordings to OnlyFans. How much of your literature discusses these forms, and to what extent do the results converge? Porn is surprisingly similar to alcohol, even in terms of its effects, but private sexual autonomy is arguably more important (morally) than the autonomy to consume alcohol. Ana J. Bridges in a review of the scientific literature on the relationship between porn and sexual assault in the Handbook of Sexual Assault and Sexual Assault Prevention concluded that a ban is not warranted[0], but media literacy and other measures have been somewhat promising. [0] http://xyonline.net/sites/xyonline.net/files/2020-07/Bridges%2C%20Pornography%20and%20Sexual%20Assault%202019.pdf http://xyonline.net/sites/xyonline.net/files/2020-07/Bridges...
  - scottlocklin 6y ago
    Oh please; OP was boasting of legalizing porn as some great achievement of his people. It's not a great achievement of his people, nor an inexorable sign of progress. It is at best something marginal, like making slot machines legal so swine like Sheldon Adelson can buy off US politicians instead of scurrying around in criminal back alleys avoiding police where gambling syndicates belong. You're lecturing me on the "liberal paradigm in law" which was somehow invented in the 1960s rather back in the 1700s when the rest of the liberal paradigm was invented by, you know, the philosophers who invented classical liberalism. And great reddit tier red herring about "defining porn." How about "all the filth that the Danes made legal, as OP was boasting about." Is that a clear enough definition for you, or do you want to parse dirty pictures and debate the merits of DH Lawrence books?
    - claudiawerner 6y ago
      >You're lecturing me on the "liberal paradigm in law" which was somehow invented in the 1960s rather back in the 1700s when the rest of the liberal paradigm was invented by, you know, the philosophers who invented classical liberalism. The liberal paradigm in law has only relatively recently gained support despite being "invented" long ago - whether we're talking about debate over obscenity laws, gay sex, alcohol, or, indeed, gambling. This is especially true in non-US countries which are not founded on explicitly liberal principles. The 60s saw the L. A. Hart and Patrick Lord Devlin debate on the limits of morality's place in law. >And great reddit tier red herring about "defining porn." Not a red herring at all. I frankly do not trust legislators to possess an accurate or up-to-date understanding of what the relvant literature shows, with what confidence, or explanatory power. I also do not trust the blunt force of the law to limit its scope. The Danes probably made erotic fanfiction legal too. Imagine you're a fanfiction writer, and your craft is illegalized and you're thrown in prison despite the fact that your government could not produce any evidence that your craft causes the harm attributed to other porn. That would be an injustice, and just like the prohibition of alcohol on similar grounds, I can't support it unless we're clear ahead of time what this means for freedom of expression.
      - 6y ago
- krebs_liebhaber 6y ago
  It seems that supernormal stimulus + profit motive = bad outcomes for society. From the snack-food industry breeding a nation of diabetic hamplanets, to the Infinitely Novel Pornotron that real women just can't compete with, to the teeny-boppers who are so addicted to social media that they'll publicly shit-talk their own parents[0] for internet up-cummies... I think we're inevitably gonna have to amend our idea of "freedom" to account for things that blatantly exploit human psychology. It's like the Greek philosophers said. Being truly free is synonymous with living temperately; someone who is ruled by his primal urges to coom and consoom is just a slave to himself. [0] https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/504615-michigan-candidates-daughter-urges-people-not-to-vote-for-him-in-viral https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/504615-michigan-candid...
  - scpedicini 6y ago
    Just as one case example, snack foods have been ubiquitously available worldwide for a long time and there are countries that have somehow managed to retain a relatively healthy lifestyle without resorting to yet more government regulations. I think banning is a fairly unimaginative legislative knee-jerk response. For example what if we genetically engineered snack foods to be more like pistachios. The amount of effort required to open up a single pistachio often results in the expenditure of an equal number of calories to the actual energy content of the food itself. Thus it acts as a natural net negative caloric food. Also I'm not sure how much we should be taking from the ancient Greeks considering that pederasty was commonly practiced there.

> We were the first country to legalize porn [...] When was porn illegal in other countries?

by tpush 6y ago

> We were the first country to legalize porn [...] When was porn illegal in other countries?

Many countries still have obscenity laws, and the US had stringent ones for a while. Google Larry Flynt. He spent time in jail. Canada has restrictive laws regarding some porn which is legal in other countries, they've arrested people over it.

scottlocklin 6y ago

It's still illegal in many[0]. And there are good arguments it should be illegal in more[1]. Picking "we made porn cummies more widely available" .... not the best example of your country being responsible for human progress. Great way to pacify your population though. [0] example: https://www.worldnomads.com/travel-safety/southeast-asia/singapore/singapore-against-the-law https://www.worldnomads.com/travel-safety/southeast-asia/sin... [1] https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/ https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/

claudiawerner 6y ago
>And there are good arguments it should be illegal in more[1]. While it's certainly worth debating and discussing, the liberal paradigm in law proscribes that we should only make laws in certain circumstances under specific notions of harm, and the mere risk of harm is not usually sufficient. In addition, it is neither clear that legislation is the route to take, and several feminist critics of porn have tempered their claims and goals. Before even discussing this matter, never mind mentioning legislation, you should be clear on how you define porn and the extent to which the research on porn is consonant with that definition. It's too easy to think that all porn fits in one bucket while today we have everything from hentai to fanfiction to online roleplay to audio recordings to OnlyFans. How much of your literature discusses these forms, and to what extent do the results converge? Porn is surprisingly similar to alcohol, even in terms of its effects, but private sexual autonomy is arguably more important (morally) than the autonomy to consume alcohol. Ana J. Bridges in a review of the scientific literature on the relationship between porn and sexual assault in the Handbook of Sexual Assault and Sexual Assault Prevention concluded that a ban is not warranted[0], but media literacy and other measures have been somewhat promising. [0] http://xyonline.net/sites/xyonline.net/files/2020-07/Bridges%2C%20Pornography%20and%20Sexual%20Assault%202019.pdf http://xyonline.net/sites/xyonline.net/files/2020-07/Bridges...
- scottlocklin 6y ago
  Oh please; OP was boasting of legalizing porn as some great achievement of his people. It's not a great achievement of his people, nor an inexorable sign of progress. It is at best something marginal, like making slot machines legal so swine like Sheldon Adelson can buy off US politicians instead of scurrying around in criminal back alleys avoiding police where gambling syndicates belong. You're lecturing me on the "liberal paradigm in law" which was somehow invented in the 1960s rather back in the 1700s when the rest of the liberal paradigm was invented by, you know, the philosophers who invented classical liberalism. And great reddit tier red herring about "defining porn." How about "all the filth that the Danes made legal, as OP was boasting about." Is that a clear enough definition for you, or do you want to parse dirty pictures and debate the merits of DH Lawrence books?
  - claudiawerner 6y ago
    >You're lecturing me on the "liberal paradigm in law" which was somehow invented in the 1960s rather back in the 1700s when the rest of the liberal paradigm was invented by, you know, the philosophers who invented classical liberalism. The liberal paradigm in law has only relatively recently gained support despite being "invented" long ago - whether we're talking about debate over obscenity laws, gay sex, alcohol, or, indeed, gambling. This is especially true in non-US countries which are not founded on explicitly liberal principles. The 60s saw the L. A. Hart and Patrick Lord Devlin debate on the limits of morality's place in law. >And great reddit tier red herring about "defining porn." Not a red herring at all. I frankly do not trust legislators to possess an accurate or up-to-date understanding of what the relvant literature shows, with what confidence, or explanatory power. I also do not trust the blunt force of the law to limit its scope. The Danes probably made erotic fanfiction legal too. Imagine you're a fanfiction writer, and your craft is illegalized and you're thrown in prison despite the fact that your government could not produce any evidence that your craft causes the harm attributed to other porn. That would be an injustice, and just like the prohibition of alcohol on similar grounds, I can't support it unless we're clear ahead of time what this means for freedom of expression.
    - 6y ago
krebs_liebhaber 6y ago
It seems that supernormal stimulus + profit motive = bad outcomes for society. From the snack-food industry breeding a nation of diabetic hamplanets, to the Infinitely Novel Pornotron that real women just can't compete with, to the teeny-boppers who are so addicted to social media that they'll publicly shit-talk their own parents[0] for internet up-cummies... I think we're inevitably gonna have to amend our idea of "freedom" to account for things that blatantly exploit human psychology. It's like the Greek philosophers said. Being truly free is synonymous with living temperately; someone who is ruled by his primal urges to coom and consoom is just a slave to himself. [0] https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/504615-michigan-candidates-daughter-urges-people-not-to-vote-for-him-in-viral https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/504615-michigan-candid...
- scpedicini 6y ago
  Just as one case example, snack foods have been ubiquitously available worldwide for a long time and there are countries that have somehow managed to retain a relatively healthy lifestyle without resorting to yet more government regulations. I think banning is a fairly unimaginative legislative knee-jerk response. For example what if we genetically engineered snack foods to be more like pistachios. The amount of effort required to open up a single pistachio often results in the expenditure of an equal number of calories to the actual energy content of the food itself. Thus it acts as a natural net negative caloric food. Also I'm not sure how much we should be taking from the ancient Greeks considering that pederasty was commonly practiced there.