6 ms·

Has cryptocurrency actually ever provided any actual, legal value for anyone other than as a speculative trading platform (i.e. glorified lottery)?

chriszhang 6y ago
[edit: this comment is outdated. the parent comment is updated now to change the word crypto to cryptocurrency. I misunderstood earlier crypto to be cryptography. with crypto meaning cryptocurrency my comment is not related now.] I think it has. Worldwide ecommerce runs on cryptography. there are laws and regulations on how crypto should be made secure and managed in ecommerce. if you mean blockchain cryptocurrency by the word crypto then you may be correct. but in general terms crypto has a lot of actual legal value for it.
- mattpojk 6y ago
  I meant cryptocurrency of course and have updated the comment. Also it's a legit question rather than a statement. I haven't ever seen what blockchain is truly good for, but perhaps I've missed something.
  - chriszhang 6y ago
    Oh I agree it is an interesting and legit question for cryptocurrency.
qertoip 6y ago
Yes, absolutely. With Bitcoin people protect their hard earned savings from rampant inflation present in many countries. With Monero people regain their right to financial privacy online.
- Traubenfuchs 6y ago
  Ok, so we are at real use number 3. after "pyramid / get rich quick scheme" and "volatile high risk investment", the "evading the bank system, shady financial transactions and tax evasion" part.
  - andai 6y ago
    Yeah, sure, I mean, if you spend all day shuffling words around, you can make anything sound bad.
  - qertoip 6y ago
    That's your use case, not mine.
  - xiphias2 6y ago
    You may want to evade the banking system even if you don't want to evade taxes: I was always very frugal and hard working in my life, and just put more and more money on my bank account to be safe. I didn't invest in the stock market or houses, as I thought that they are overvalued. Then one day in 2013 I saw that in Cyprus the banks just took away money from other people, who saved all their lives. It felt close, because I'm also from the EU, and Cyprus is not a 3rd world country....that's when I bought Bitcoin with a part of my money, because I understood it that if I keep the private key secure, nobody can take it away from me.
    - ceejayoz 6y ago
      > I understood it that if I keep the private key secure, nobody can take it away from me. They can, though. All it takes is a majority of the miners deciding to do so. For example: https://blog.ethereum.org/2016/07/20/hard-fork-completed/ https://blog.ethereum.org/2016/07/20/hard-fork-completed/
      - xiphias2 6y ago
        Hard fork is very different from double spend attack that miners can try. As long as I run my full node when accepting Bitcoin, I can choose which node I run (I guess I don't give away a big a secret if I tell you that I run Bitcoin Core). The DAO hard fork happened because most people with economic power who run nodes in Ethereum accept Vitaly's decision. With Bitcoin there's a concensus at this point that only bug fix hard forks are accepted.
        6y ago
- user-the-name 6y ago
  Where "right to financial privacy online" translates as "ability to pay for illegal goods and services".
  - qertoip 6y ago
    That may be your case and so your bias.
    - user-the-name 6y ago
      No, that is just the case with Monero. It is used mainly for criminal activity.
      - jsutton 6y ago
        That's objectively your assumption. You really have no way of knowing what it's mainly used for.
        user-the-name 6y ago
        It's crime, though.
  - qertoip 6y ago
    Also, do you shut the door in a public toilet? If so, you must be snorting coke, I guess. Why on Earth would you shut the toilet door otherwise?
    - arcticbull 6y ago
      I mean you publish all Bitcoin transactions on a global ledger so I suspect in this metaphor you’re the one with the stall door open. My bank doesnt share my transactions except as required by law in the event of suspicious activity. But if we’re going to play this game, if everyone walking into the bathroom came out with a renewed sense of self esteem, a nose bleed and a sudden urge to dance, yes, I think you would be looked at sideways for closing the door. What’s lacking from your rhetorical question is context.
neilpmas 6y ago
Yes - crypto kitties https://www.cryptokitties.co/ https://www.cryptokitties.co/ I’m not sure it strengthens arguments for blockchain etc but on a tight economic value add it’s true.
- brushfoot 6y ago
  On the contrary. Just because something attracts money doesn't mean it adds value. In fact, the opposite can be true. In this case, CryptoKitties purchases represent money that was diverted from intrinsically valuable goods and services: cars, fruit, haircuts, shoes, software, and so on. Every dollar spent on CryptoKitties was a dollar that didn't go to a farmer, a plumber, or a musician. That's not creating economic value; it's destroying it. It's a pyramid scheme, plain and simple.
user-the-name 6y ago
Lots of people are getting very rich by running exchanges. The jury's still out on the "legal" part of that particular business (spoiler: probably not).
intotheabyss 6y ago
There are several, but one clear use case are prediction markets: omen.eth.link
simonebrunozzi 6y ago
Yes. Fabrica [0] uses crypto/tokens to tokenize land in the US and allow buy/sell operations in a few seconds. I guess you can call it "providing a legal value"? Disclaimer: ex co-founder, left the company at the end of 2018, still in good terms with them. [0]: http://fabrica.land/ http://fabrica.land/

chriszhang 6y ago

[edit: this comment is outdated. the parent comment is updated now to change the word crypto to cryptocurrency. I misunderstood earlier crypto to be cryptography. with crypto meaning cryptocurrency my comment is not related now.] I think it has. Worldwide ecommerce runs on cryptography. there are laws and regulations on how crypto should be made secure and managed in ecommerce. if you mean blockchain cryptocurrency by the word crypto then you may be correct. but in general terms crypto has a lot of actual legal value for it.

mattpojk 6y ago
I meant cryptocurrency of course and have updated the comment. Also it's a legit question rather than a statement. I haven't ever seen what blockchain is truly good for, but perhaps I've missed something.
- chriszhang 6y ago
  Oh I agree it is an interesting and legit question for cryptocurrency.

qertoip 6y ago

Yes, absolutely. With Bitcoin people protect their hard earned savings from rampant inflation present in many countries. With Monero people regain their right to financial privacy online.

Traubenfuchs 6y ago
Ok, so we are at real use number 3. after "pyramid / get rich quick scheme" and "volatile high risk investment", the "evading the bank system, shady financial transactions and tax evasion" part.
- andai 6y ago
  Yeah, sure, I mean, if you spend all day shuffling words around, you can make anything sound bad.
- qertoip 6y ago
  That's your use case, not mine.
- xiphias2 6y ago
  You may want to evade the banking system even if you don't want to evade taxes: I was always very frugal and hard working in my life, and just put more and more money on my bank account to be safe. I didn't invest in the stock market or houses, as I thought that they are overvalued. Then one day in 2013 I saw that in Cyprus the banks just took away money from other people, who saved all their lives. It felt close, because I'm also from the EU, and Cyprus is not a 3rd world country....that's when I bought Bitcoin with a part of my money, because I understood it that if I keep the private key secure, nobody can take it away from me.
  - ceejayoz 6y ago
    > I understood it that if I keep the private key secure, nobody can take it away from me. They can, though. All it takes is a majority of the miners deciding to do so. For example: https://blog.ethereum.org/2016/07/20/hard-fork-completed/ https://blog.ethereum.org/2016/07/20/hard-fork-completed/
    - xiphias2 6y ago
      Hard fork is very different from double spend attack that miners can try. As long as I run my full node when accepting Bitcoin, I can choose which node I run (I guess I don't give away a big a secret if I tell you that I run Bitcoin Core). The DAO hard fork happened because most people with economic power who run nodes in Ethereum accept Vitaly's decision. With Bitcoin there's a concensus at this point that only bug fix hard forks are accepted.
      - 6y ago
user-the-name 6y ago
Where "right to financial privacy online" translates as "ability to pay for illegal goods and services".
- qertoip 6y ago
  That may be your case and so your bias.
  - user-the-name 6y ago
    No, that is just the case with Monero. It is used mainly for criminal activity.
    - jsutton 6y ago
      That's objectively your assumption. You really have no way of knowing what it's mainly used for.
      - user-the-name 6y ago
        It's crime, though.
- qertoip 6y ago
  Also, do you shut the door in a public toilet? If so, you must be snorting coke, I guess. Why on Earth would you shut the toilet door otherwise?
  - arcticbull 6y ago
    I mean you publish all Bitcoin transactions on a global ledger so I suspect in this metaphor you’re the one with the stall door open. My bank doesnt share my transactions except as required by law in the event of suspicious activity. But if we’re going to play this game, if everyone walking into the bathroom came out with a renewed sense of self esteem, a nose bleed and a sudden urge to dance, yes, I think you would be looked at sideways for closing the door. What’s lacking from your rhetorical question is context.

neilpmas 6y ago

Yes - crypto kitties https://www.cryptokitties.co/ https://www.cryptokitties.co/ I’m not sure it strengthens arguments for blockchain etc but on a tight economic value add it’s true.

brushfoot 6y ago
On the contrary. Just because something attracts money doesn't mean it adds value. In fact, the opposite can be true. In this case, CryptoKitties purchases represent money that was diverted from intrinsically valuable goods and services: cars, fruit, haircuts, shoes, software, and so on. Every dollar spent on CryptoKitties was a dollar that didn't go to a farmer, a plumber, or a musician. That's not creating economic value; it's destroying it. It's a pyramid scheme, plain and simple.

user-the-name 6y ago

Lots of people are getting very rich by running exchanges. The jury's still out on the "legal" part of that particular business (spoiler: probably not).

intotheabyss 6y ago

There are several, but one clear use case are prediction markets: omen.eth.link

simonebrunozzi 6y ago

Yes. Fabrica [0] uses crypto/tokens to tokenize land in the US and allow buy/sell operations in a few seconds. I guess you can call it "providing a legal value"? Disclaimer: ex co-founder, left the company at the end of 2018, still in good terms with them. [0]: http://fabrica.land/ http://fabrica.land/