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Rules that were unfair. I protest as a consumer as an unnecessary Apple tax to install paid software is an unfair burden that should be illegal.

donkeyd 6y ago
Do you feel the same way about anything sold on Amazon? Or in supermarkets? Or is that in some way different?
- jsjohnst 6y ago
  Just to emphasize your point, 30% take is relatively small in the retail world. A store like Amazon or Walmart or Target or Best Buy generally wants a cut of 40-50%, if not more. And that doesn’t include the cut many distributors want to take for being the middle person. (Source: I’ve been on the executive team at startups with products sold in retail stores)
  - modo_mario 6y ago
    Then I'm sure you'd agree monopsonies due to increasing centralisation and clout in the past few decades aren't all that nice for the consumer and smaller players like startups.
  - donkeyd 6y ago
    Yup. And that excludes the fee many brands pay supermarkets to be in the eye level spot on the shelves. New entrants have to spend money just to be visible in the racks, regardless of whether their product is being sold.
  - webmobdev 6y ago
    > Just to emphasize your point, 30% take is relatively small in the retail world. The internet already provides a nearly free distribution medium for software application - so even paying a 5% markup to an unnecessary middleman is just outrageous. The app store only exists so that Apple (and others) can gauge even more money from developers, who ultimately pass on the cost to us customers.
    - jsjohnst 6y ago
      And how does that dispute anything I said? I wasn’t making a claim that the AppStore commission is warranted or not, I was speaking to what retail stores charge. I get it, you think Apple is out of line, but maybe reply to someone who is claiming it’s justified rather than pointing your vitriol towards me?
      - webmobdev 6y ago
        I was bringing the debate back to what it was about, not "spewing vitriol" at you.
        jsjohnst 6y ago
        Wouldn’t you say your post is “bitter criticism” of Apple/the AppStore? If so, then welcome to learning the definition of vitriol! If not, then other help than I can provide is needed.
        webmobdev 6y ago
        Yes, it is a "bitter criticism" of Apple. It is not a "bitter criticism" of you or your beliefs.
        jsjohnst 6y ago
        > Yes, it is a "bitter criticism" of Apple Exactly what I said it was > It is not a "bitter criticism" of you or your beliefs. Which I never said it was, I rather said you were replying to me with your vitriol for Apple.
        webmobdev 6y ago
        This doesn't add to the debate and detracts from it. To come back to it - we were not discussing whether it is fair for Apple to charge how much ever percentage it does on its app store vs Amazon (or anyone similar). The crux of the matter is that neither Amazon or Walmart or any other online or offline supermarket restricts anyone from buying a product directly from the producer / manufacture or from elsewhere. Apple does precisely that with its app store on ios (and soon will on macOS too). By depriving us the freedom of buying from the developer (or others) directly, Apple not only violates our privacy but also raises the cost of an app for everyone (by unnecessarily charging the developer an annual recurring fee and by charging a commission on sale).
- webmobdev 6y ago
  It's not even a valid comparison and disingenuous because software products now don't need to be sold through any retail outlet, and can be sold directly to the customer through the internet. There is absolutely no need of any app store as a middle man here.
  - donkeyd 6y ago
    There are plenty of companies who sell their products directly to consumers. So physical products don't need to be sold through third party retailers either.
    - webmobdev 6y ago
      And some brands have started doing just that. But that's not the point - Amazon or Walmart doesn't prevent me from buying the products directly from the producers / manufacturers or from some other third-party. Apple does precisely that with its app store and ios platform (and soon will do with macOS).

donkeyd 6y ago

Do you feel the same way about anything sold on Amazon? Or in supermarkets? Or is that in some way different?

jsjohnst 6y ago
Just to emphasize your point, 30% take is relatively small in the retail world. A store like Amazon or Walmart or Target or Best Buy generally wants a cut of 40-50%, if not more. And that doesn’t include the cut many distributors want to take for being the middle person. (Source: I’ve been on the executive team at startups with products sold in retail stores)
- modo_mario 6y ago
  Then I'm sure you'd agree monopsonies due to increasing centralisation and clout in the past few decades aren't all that nice for the consumer and smaller players like startups.
- donkeyd 6y ago
  Yup. And that excludes the fee many brands pay supermarkets to be in the eye level spot on the shelves. New entrants have to spend money just to be visible in the racks, regardless of whether their product is being sold.
- webmobdev 6y ago
  > Just to emphasize your point, 30% take is relatively small in the retail world. The internet already provides a nearly free distribution medium for software application - so even paying a 5% markup to an unnecessary middleman is just outrageous. The app store only exists so that Apple (and others) can gauge even more money from developers, who ultimately pass on the cost to us customers.
  - jsjohnst 6y ago
    And how does that dispute anything I said? I wasn’t making a claim that the AppStore commission is warranted or not, I was speaking to what retail stores charge. I get it, you think Apple is out of line, but maybe reply to someone who is claiming it’s justified rather than pointing your vitriol towards me?
    - webmobdev 6y ago
      I was bringing the debate back to what it was about, not "spewing vitriol" at you.
      - jsjohnst 6y ago
        Wouldn’t you say your post is “bitter criticism” of Apple/the AppStore? If so, then welcome to learning the definition of vitriol! If not, then other help than I can provide is needed.
        webmobdev 6y ago
        Yes, it is a "bitter criticism" of Apple. It is not a "bitter criticism" of you or your beliefs.
        jsjohnst 6y ago
        > Yes, it is a "bitter criticism" of Apple Exactly what I said it was > It is not a "bitter criticism" of you or your beliefs. Which I never said it was, I rather said you were replying to me with your vitriol for Apple.
        webmobdev 6y ago
        This doesn't add to the debate and detracts from it. To come back to it - we were not discussing whether it is fair for Apple to charge how much ever percentage it does on its app store vs Amazon (or anyone similar). The crux of the matter is that neither Amazon or Walmart or any other online or offline supermarket restricts anyone from buying a product directly from the producer / manufacture or from elsewhere. Apple does precisely that with its app store on ios (and soon will on macOS too). By depriving us the freedom of buying from the developer (or others) directly, Apple not only violates our privacy but also raises the cost of an app for everyone (by unnecessarily charging the developer an annual recurring fee and by charging a commission on sale).
webmobdev 6y ago
It's not even a valid comparison and disingenuous because software products now don't need to be sold through any retail outlet, and can be sold directly to the customer through the internet. There is absolutely no need of any app store as a middle man here.
- donkeyd 6y ago
  There are plenty of companies who sell their products directly to consumers. So physical products don't need to be sold through third party retailers either.
  - webmobdev 6y ago
    And some brands have started doing just that. But that's not the point - Amazon or Walmart doesn't prevent me from buying the products directly from the producers / manufacturers or from some other third-party. Apple does precisely that with its app store and ios platform (and soon will do with macOS).