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The language designer's intentions were completely different(very similar situation as the situation with php). His intentions were to give very basic interacti

The language designer's intentions were completely different(very similar situation as the situation with php). His intentions were to give very basic interactivity to the plain documents that was the web. And for that purpose javascript is fine. For anything beyond that, it's simply retarded. I've worked in large corporations for most of my life and in all instances stunts like javascript-only development or react were the consequence of either someone from management being a javascript "developer" or management blindly trusting their "top engineers". Just open up history books and look at how many times humanity has been wrong. Hell, just turn on the news and look at the political landscape - the people who were democratically elected, and you'll instantly see what I'm on about. My argument remains equally valid for the people developing those frameworks. The fact that their barebone examples eat up 200 megabytes of memory and basic navigation pumps up my cpu to at least 40% is a clear indication. And my personal computer is not a raspberry pi gen 1. Far, far from it. Look around HN and you'll see a growing support for my message: javascript is crap and needs to be abolished. As for javascript being "blazingly fast": lol. Compared to what? calculating 924^42 with pen and paper? Yeah, in that respect it's fast. For anything beyond that it remains a paper plane. Wasm initially terrified me because it potentially opened the floodgates for all the "developers" to jump into what are real programming languages and make a mess out of them too. For the time being it's fine though: Jumping from this.prop.element.parent.third_degree_cousin.grandParent.neighbors_dog.value.get_value().toInteger() = this.prop.element.parent.third_degree_cousin.grandParent.neighbors_dog.value.get_value().toInteger() + 1; to type ConnectionError = Box<dyn std::error::Error + Send + Sync + 'static>; is not humanly possible... For now...

ironmagma 6y ago
JavaScript is fast compared to what it used to be, and faster than Python for example, in many circumstances. [1] As far as large groups of people being wrong, that also applies to HN. The industry trend has been toward larger frontend components, and that’s not because of tyrannical engineers (since when do engineers have business power?). It’s just cheaper to create code on the frontend a lot of the time, especially if you have to weigh writing the code in JS versus e.g. Go with a properly formed GraphQL backend. [1] https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/fastest/python.html https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/...
- axegon_ 6y ago
  Go unfortunately suffers from something similar: packaging. Even if you don't know the history of go, you have to look at it only once to figure out that this part is a hacky afterthought. Like everything in js. Also comparison of scripting languages is the stupidest thing one can do and I'd have expected better from debian but oh well... My point remains: javascript is the stupidest language ever made(including the esoteric languages) and it should have been scrapped a long time ago. I have 1000+ books on my shelves next to me and if I start describing the utter crap found in javascript, I'd have to write 10 times as much. Stupid type system, idiotic paradigms, no clear structure, shit standard library, inconsistent naming conventions even in the standard library alone, it's as compatible with lower level languages as olive oil and alcohol(ffi is absolute shit with outrageous overhead), slow, unpredictable, does not have a clear way to do basic stuff like deep cloning. But you are right, it's cheaper to write an interface using javascript. But if cost saving is our top priority, there's yet another argument for scrapping it altogether: ncurses. 10 times faster to write, 10000 times better performance, runs on anything with a screen. I'd totally vote for dropping the current web in favor of console-based web.
  - ironmagma 6y ago
    > I'd totally vote for dropping the current web in favor of console-based web. Hardly an unpopular opinion here on beloved HN. I love you guys, but also am glad you don’t hold the reins to make this a reality. :-)

ironmagma 6y ago

JavaScript is fast compared to what it used to be, and faster than Python for example, in many circumstances. [1] As far as large groups of people being wrong, that also applies to HN. The industry trend has been toward larger frontend components, and that’s not because of tyrannical engineers (since when do engineers have business power?). It’s just cheaper to create code on the frontend a lot of the time, especially if you have to weigh writing the code in JS versus e.g. Go with a properly formed GraphQL backend. [1] https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/fastest/python.html https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/...

axegon_ 6y ago
Go unfortunately suffers from something similar: packaging. Even if you don't know the history of go, you have to look at it only once to figure out that this part is a hacky afterthought. Like everything in js. Also comparison of scripting languages is the stupidest thing one can do and I'd have expected better from debian but oh well... My point remains: javascript is the stupidest language ever made(including the esoteric languages) and it should have been scrapped a long time ago. I have 1000+ books on my shelves next to me and if I start describing the utter crap found in javascript, I'd have to write 10 times as much. Stupid type system, idiotic paradigms, no clear structure, shit standard library, inconsistent naming conventions even in the standard library alone, it's as compatible with lower level languages as olive oil and alcohol(ffi is absolute shit with outrageous overhead), slow, unpredictable, does not have a clear way to do basic stuff like deep cloning. But you are right, it's cheaper to write an interface using javascript. But if cost saving is our top priority, there's yet another argument for scrapping it altogether: ncurses. 10 times faster to write, 10000 times better performance, runs on anything with a screen. I'd totally vote for dropping the current web in favor of console-based web.
- ironmagma 6y ago
  > I'd totally vote for dropping the current web in favor of console-based web. Hardly an unpopular opinion here on beloved HN. I love you guys, but also am glad you don’t hold the reins to make this a reality. :-)