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>>Tony Hsieh had a surprisingly large collection of half-empty liquor bottles at his desk. Not just Tony. My best friend used to work at Zappos. He used to br
by enraged_camel 6y ago
>>Tony Hsieh had a surprisingly large collection of half-empty liquor bottles at his desk.
Not just Tony.
My best friend used to work at Zappos. He used to brag to me that every employee/team gets their own mini-fridge, which is stocked with booze and liquor. He said that a common "bonding" experience for different teams in the company is to exchange different types of liquor. This was in early 2010s.
He said drinking on the job is common, but going overboard is discouraged (for obvious reasons). But even he admitted that Zappos clearly understood that in order to attract customer service people to the company (headquartered in Las Vegas), being able to drink on the job, i.e. during the day, would be a great recruitment tool.
I thought it was very cynical, although it obviously worked out well for them. Too bad about Tony though, I hear he was a great guy.
- m3kw9 6y agoStartups usually have fridge full of booze. We usually use it on fridays or during certain major milestones. Not a big deal
- wutbrodo 6y agoThis was the case for most teams I worked on at Google too; I would have an afternoon beer and work from the couch near the mini-fridge at least once a week (I was in my early 20s, so this was less impairing than it probably would be now), and people would usually join me, though not everyone would drink. That being said, a mini-fridge of booze _per-employee_ is pretty unusual.
- User23 6y agoSRE was particularly notorious for this.
- harrisonjackson 6y ago> every employee/team gets their own mini-fridge That's not startup normal. Maybe having beer and liquor bottles in the kitchen or snack room or whatever but half empty bottles littering the CEO's desk and every employee or even every team having their own mini-fridge is odd. I've worked at startups with a "drinking culture" and startups with a "board game culture" and I'll take the board game culture every time. Doesn't mean you can't let loose and drink, too - but drinking as the central activity quickly turns a business into a frat house. I do have some great memories celebrating milestones, new hires, etc with early stage coworkers :D
- bredren 6y agoI’d add that casual alcohol use being normalized is not necessary or positive. Alcohol use among high school seniors in the US is on the decline, so is use of any “illicit” drug. [1] I’m no square, but this should be encouraged. Young people already deal with stress of fitting in at a high-velocity workplace. Modeling conspicuous substance consumption at work seems pretty backward to me. Perhaps the most irresponsible illustration of this is Elon Musk who has made his substance use so overt I think it wrongly and perhaps dangerously couples using to entrepreneurial success. [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/02/26/the-concerns-and-challenges-of-being-a-u-s-teen-what-the-data-show/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/02/26/the-concern...
- MrBuddyCasino 6y ago> Alcohol use among high school seniors in the US is on the decline, so is use of any “illicit” drug. Sounds wholesome, but is probably just the symptom of people going out and socializing less, resulting in increased isolation and loneliness.
- JacobSuperslav 6y agohard to say. looking at me and my friends - we've got more time to socialize, plenty of friends, yet people drink less, and definitely use less tobacco(it's really unsexy to smoke cigarettes now, and vaping in public is just embarrassing), because we're more health focused. I have to admit I'm a regular user of psychedelics. drugs are decriminalized where I'm from. unless there will be long term consequences, i don't think it impacted me in any bad way, frankly the opposite, albeit "wasting" some time with friends.
- bredren 6y agoAccording to Pew, teen alcohol consumption has been in decline since 1997.
- PablumPicasso 6y ago> Perhaps the most irresponsible illustration of this is Elon Musk who has made his substance use so overt I think it wrongly and perhaps dangerously couples using to entrepreneurial success. oh come off it, what substance abuse? he toked on a blunt on JRE once (clearly barely inhaled and even then, so what) and has a few bourbons with his brother on yearly retreats? please provide more info about this, because i've never, ever taken musk to be that sort of guy.
- jwmoz 6y agoIt's cool when you're in your 20s but not so much when you get older.
- watwut 6y agoIt becomes less and less cool as you age, because that is when you learn how many of cool adults you grew up with were hidden-to-you alcoholics or turned into full blown alcoholics. And as you age people speak more freely about negative things that happened all along you had no idea about as a kid and young one. It becomes less and less cool as you age and realize you really gotta be careful not to go the same route.
- aok1425 6y agoA small startup where my friend worked (~200 employees) ended up locking up their liquor cabinet except for Friday afternoons. Sadly, one of the employees was alcoholic and was going there too often.
- Swannie 6y agoIf you watched Valley of the Boom, the Netscape build team sections talk about the booze culture. This has persisted into SRE team culture. This is not new. I agree, no big deal.
- bilbopotter 6y agoWait what are you kidding!? Drinking DURING the day was encouraged? So the famed company culture is to let everyone get drunk as long as they're all hitting targets? Recipe for disaster for anyone who stays a significant amount of time. It seems cool when you're young then after 10 years people start getting serious problems like alcoholic neuropathy. Very sad situation all round.
- unishark 6y agoI don't think they meant binge drinking. In many cultures, drinking is fine throughout the day, and it does not imply continuing until drunk.
- rorykoehler 6y agoWhat's the point in drinking any alcohol at all unless you want to achieve some level of impairment?
- throwaway201103 6y agoSome people do enjoy the taste, or the warming feel you get. I will sometimes have a small glass of whiskey in the evening just for that sensation, not to feel any intoxication.
- rorykoehler 6y agoThe warming feeling is mild intoxication?
- 542354234235 6y agoNo. Intoxication is generally considered to be mental impairment or a change of mental state, like mood, inhibition, etc. The warming feeling you get from alcohol is due to alcohol dilating blood vessels, moving more warm blood to your extremities and skin. It is a real physical reaction, not a mental perception. So while you might also be intoxicated, the warm feeling is not intoxication per se.
- rorykoehler 6y agoAnd this is supposed to be the company we look up to for guidance on building a culture?
- johnwalkr 6y agoNot to mention its failed experiment with holocracy, which is a great way to de facto promote the worst.[1] [1] https://pando.com/2016/01/19/delivering-hopelessness-38-zappos-core-tech-team-have-quit-thanks-holacracy/ https://pando.com/2016/01/19/delivering-hopelessness-38-zapp...
- rorykoehler 6y agoIMO holocracy can work, just not in a capitalist corporate environment. Money is power and people don't forget that because management throw buzzwords around.
- simonebrunozzi 6y agoAt AWS we had (still have?) Tatonka nights, where you go to a fast-food place (was it the Wingdome in Seattle?) and you race to eat 25 fried chicken wings.