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This is the same problem with companies that have a “no vacation tracking, just take off when you want policy”. It ends up that no one takes vacation for this s

by orev 6y ago

This is the same problem with companies that have a “no vacation tracking, just take off when you want policy”. It ends up that no one takes vacation for this same reason.

uberman 6y ago
I see two people with this viewpoint, and I would be interested in knowing more. Is the thought here that a company that offers unlimited vacation would see people take none? I have never worked in such an environment, and I also don't tend to take all of my allotted vacation anyways, but at first glance, I'm not sure how: "take off as much as you like" could possibly be more restrictive than: "take off as much as you like, but no more that 2 weeks." Assuming of course we are not talking about mandatory vacation policies (that some companies/countries) effectively have.
- geofft 6y ago
  Here's the dynamic: When you don't take all your allotted vacation, and someone else does, there's no possible claim that you were a harder or more dedicated worker than they were. They did exactly what they were permitted to. And, therefore, I'm guessing that if you wanted to take your vacation, you wouldn't have too much trouble finding time to take it, and nobody would complain that you did. If there's unlimited vacation, and someone takes two weeks of vacation when the whole company tends to take one, and they were on vacation during a critical project, once time comes for performance reviews, people will say "I'm not sure how committed they are to the company" / "They don't have a great work ethic" / etc. etc. Because it was their choice to decide that two weeks was reasonable, it's easier to hold them responsible for the consequences of that choice. So, everyone feels like they need to take at most as much vacation as average, possibly less.
  - jakelazaroff 6y ago
    One thing I've wondered is how the dynamic would work if you combined unlimited vacation with a minimum requirement. Would that be enough to foster a culture of taking the time you want/need and not worrying? Or would your minimum essentially become the expected amount, with any excess frowned upon?
    - geofft 6y ago
      The thing about "unlimited vacation" policies is there's always a limit. Obviously it can't be 52 weeks. Probably it can't even be 10 weeks. So the question is where that unstated number is. If the number is the same for everyone, state it. Go ahead and say "Everyone gets 6 weeks vacation." If you don't feel comfortable saying that, then it wasn't unlimited at all, was it? If the number is different, i.e., junior employees can take less, politically-connected folks and people who figured out how to coast can take more, that's probably a bad thing for your company. At best, make additional vacation a defined promotion benefit.
      - jakelazaroff 6y ago
        That's fair. I guess the appeal to me as an employee is that I don't want to like count and ration my vacation days. As long as I can take the time I feel I want/need/deserve without worrying I don't care about making sure I'm maximizing my allowed vacation or even how it compares to other people. But maybe that's not feasible via policy or lack thereof, and having a set number of vacation days is the least worst way to do this thing.
- shaftway 6y ago
  I think your second model isn't exactly accurate. I think it's more like: "take off as much as you like, but no more than you've earned; you earn 2 weeks each year and can't bank more than 5 weeks" It's a subtle difference, but an important one. I usually bank vacation time up to my cap (typically 240 hours, but recently bumped to 300 hours). Once I'm close I take every other friday off. When coworkers ask about it my answer is "I'm at the vacation cap, so if I don't take this time off I lose it." This statement acts as a double-edged sword. "I'm at vacation cap" signals that I've worked hard and foregone time off in favor of work. i.e. I'm a hard worker. "if I don't take this time off I lose it" signals that I'm not willing to leave anything on the table, and it shows that I value a work-life balance.
wan23 6y ago
This is definitely something that varies from company to company. I have been at three companies with untracked vacation where people used the policy well.

by orev 6y ago

This is the same problem with companies that have a “no vacation tracking, just take off when you want policy”. It ends up that no one takes vacation for this same reason.

uberman 6y ago

I see two people with this viewpoint, and I would be interested in knowing more. Is the thought here that a company that offers unlimited vacation would see people take none? I have never worked in such an environment, and I also don't tend to take all of my allotted vacation anyways, but at first glance, I'm not sure how: "take off as much as you like" could possibly be more restrictive than: "take off as much as you like, but no more that 2 weeks." Assuming of course we are not talking about mandatory vacation policies (that some companies/countries) effectively have.

geofft 6y ago
Here's the dynamic: When you don't take all your allotted vacation, and someone else does, there's no possible claim that you were a harder or more dedicated worker than they were. They did exactly what they were permitted to. And, therefore, I'm guessing that if you wanted to take your vacation, you wouldn't have too much trouble finding time to take it, and nobody would complain that you did. If there's unlimited vacation, and someone takes two weeks of vacation when the whole company tends to take one, and they were on vacation during a critical project, once time comes for performance reviews, people will say "I'm not sure how committed they are to the company" / "They don't have a great work ethic" / etc. etc. Because it was their choice to decide that two weeks was reasonable, it's easier to hold them responsible for the consequences of that choice. So, everyone feels like they need to take at most as much vacation as average, possibly less.
- jakelazaroff 6y ago
  One thing I've wondered is how the dynamic would work if you combined unlimited vacation with a minimum requirement. Would that be enough to foster a culture of taking the time you want/need and not worrying? Or would your minimum essentially become the expected amount, with any excess frowned upon?
  - geofft 6y ago
    The thing about "unlimited vacation" policies is there's always a limit. Obviously it can't be 52 weeks. Probably it can't even be 10 weeks. So the question is where that unstated number is. If the number is the same for everyone, state it. Go ahead and say "Everyone gets 6 weeks vacation." If you don't feel comfortable saying that, then it wasn't unlimited at all, was it? If the number is different, i.e., junior employees can take less, politically-connected folks and people who figured out how to coast can take more, that's probably a bad thing for your company. At best, make additional vacation a defined promotion benefit.
    - jakelazaroff 6y ago
      That's fair. I guess the appeal to me as an employee is that I don't want to like count and ration my vacation days. As long as I can take the time I feel I want/need/deserve without worrying I don't care about making sure I'm maximizing my allowed vacation or even how it compares to other people. But maybe that's not feasible via policy or lack thereof, and having a set number of vacation days is the least worst way to do this thing.
shaftway 6y ago
I think your second model isn't exactly accurate. I think it's more like: "take off as much as you like, but no more than you've earned; you earn 2 weeks each year and can't bank more than 5 weeks" It's a subtle difference, but an important one. I usually bank vacation time up to my cap (typically 240 hours, but recently bumped to 300 hours). Once I'm close I take every other friday off. When coworkers ask about it my answer is "I'm at the vacation cap, so if I don't take this time off I lose it." This statement acts as a double-edged sword. "I'm at vacation cap" signals that I've worked hard and foregone time off in favor of work. i.e. I'm a hard worker. "if I don't take this time off I lose it" signals that I'm not willing to leave anything on the table, and it shows that I value a work-life balance.

wan23 6y ago

This is definitely something that varies from company to company. I have been at three companies with untracked vacation where people used the policy well.