14 ms·

She Couldn’t Open for Outdoor Dining. The Film Crew Next Door Could

76 points by undefined1 6y ago

insickness 6y ago
Video link of the woman showing the situation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvJFf2kon2c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvJFf2kon2c
- kurthr 6y ago
  Because, California has declared entertainment industry workers essential... so they operate with a special permit, and they do "get tested regularly", but frankly this is still a bit outrageous.
  - rvnx 6y ago
    This is where you can see the politics would be poor project managers. Filming TV shows is certainly not essential but just a nice to have. You can easily have a great life watching fictions that have been filmed a year ago.
    - hue3 6y ago
      The entertainment industry cannot let people realize we would live happily without its products. They have to keep the stream of shows and films coming so people don't realize that.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - aaron-santos 6y ago
      A large bored population is a great way to increase civil unrest.
almost_usual 6y ago
Government officials are being subjectively restrictive and hypocritical at times. Gavin Newsom, London Breed, San Licarrdo are violating their own guidance. Meanwhile people are unemployed and losing their businesses without getting any support. The stock market bailed out by the Fed reaches new highs.
- Roboprog 6y ago
  Meanwhile, Congress is working hard to ensure that we are all competitive. https://zeenews.india.com/world/relief-for-indian-it-professionals-as-us-senate-passes-high-skilled-immigrants-act-2328476.html https://zeenews.india.com/world/relief-for-indian-it-profess... Into the arena for the glory of Rome, I guess. (“Competition”)
- spaetzleesser 6y ago
  The situation with these politicians you mentioned and others before is completely unacceptable in my view and should lead to resignations. The number one principle should be to lead by example. If leaders don't do this people will become cynical very quickly and society erodes. The same could be said for business executives receiving huge bonuses while running a company into the ground.
- bsder 6y ago
  It's useless to go shooting at the nearby targets because the target you need to shoot at isn't convenient. 1) California is the way it is because a whole shitload of people won't take even simple precautions. The Bay Area shows what California could be. If everybody took the precautions seriously, things would be opening instead of closing. In particular, the restaurants are suffering precisely because of the kind of people who want to go to restaurants but won't obey restrictions. 2) The governors cannot print money and are looking at a budget Armageddon coming up--no matter WHAT they do it's going to suck. The Federal government CAN print money--and is shoveling it at the rich. Go harass the Senate Republicans. History suggests tar and feathers are effective.
pkaye 6y ago
> The county health department noted in a statement that film crews are regularly tested for the virus and that, unlike at restaurants, people do not mingle for “extended periods of time without their face covering.” Audiences are not allowed at film sites under the county’s guidelines.
rvnx 6y ago
There is a logic explained in the article. This is corporate restaurant (cafeteria) with employees routinely tested & little churn. If office restaurants are opened that seems logical.
- kelchm 6y ago
  It’s not a cafeteria — it’s literally a set of tents that were erected fifty feet from this restaurant owners own outdoor tent. It’s not logical at all.
ruminasean 6y ago
I work in TV, in an environment that's very strict. We're tested up to 4 times/week (I have friends who are tested daily), asked not to use mass transit, and many of us work so many hours that we have no time to do much socializing outside of the group of people working for the production who are all in the same boat. It's really the only place I go where I feel perfectly safe. Even when unmasked to eat, we don't sit together, we're always socially distant. Contrast this with my friends outside the business...they're going out semi-regularly, have only been tested when they want to see their family or get out of quarantining for 2 weeks after travel, think nothing of eating in the outdoor huts that are slowly getting more and more enclosed as the NYC weather gets colder. I'm very sympathetic to this woman and all restaurant owners in general, but the situations are not the same.
- neither_color 6y ago
  Restaurants were never a major source of transmission and your industry isnt really more essential. The only fact you stated is that you get tested more, which is a good argument, but I dont really buy your anecdote that you guys go out less than anyone else and this somehow justifies your privilege. This is a very sensitive topic because small businesses feed families and are being destroyed across the country so you'll have to do better than say "We're totally more well behaved than people who go to restaurants"
  - graeme 6y ago
    Restaurants are majorly associated with spread. They’re unmasked, indoor environments where people talk. Here’s an interesting report where two people were infected with just five min of overlap by an unmasked person. Extremely detailed contact tracing by the south koreans. TV, by contrast, gets other people to stay at home in front of the TV and not be bored. A super vital service right now! https://zeynep.substack.com/p/small-data-big-implications https://zeynep.substack.com/p/small-data-big-implications
    - neither_color 6y ago
      The story in question is an outdoor dining area set up directly in front of an identical looking film crew dining area.
bestnameever 6y ago
The big difference between the two is that the film crew is likely tested each day before stepping on set and are also adhering to strict protocols. My best guess is that the seating is more separate. > I work in film and can confirm that the cast and crew test 3x per week to be able to work. Only 2 people per 6 foot table while eating. Tables are actually 6 feet apart. Covid positive numbers in the LA film industry are about 1 out of every 3500 test. Also since filmmaker have to test negative to work most filmmakers, in their personal lives, don’t socialize with the outside world hence the very low positivity rate. from /u/Alexis-in-Texas, https://www.reddit.com/r/CoronavirusCA/comments/k71v7w/outdoor_dining_is_closed_for_everyone_except/gepnicv?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/CoronavirusCA/comments/k71v7w/outdo... > My Roomate works on set for a network. He/everyone he works with are required to get rapid tested before they step on the set every single day. Anyone he comes in contact with on set has passed the same rapid test. from /u/buffyscrims, https://www.reddit.com/r/LosAngeles/comments/k6y5f5/bar_owner_in_los_angeles_ca_is_livid_to_see_that/genp97b?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/LosAngeles/comments/k6y5f5/bar_owne...
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- svrb 6y ago
  In other words, the rules shouldn't apply to the elite because they're being safe unlike the dirty plebs?
  - masklinn 6y ago
    Have you just discovered that the one true religion of america is the sacrosanct dollar? Movie productions are big money, they have the money to implement strict protocol and the money to acquire the relevant resources. Therefore they can do the thing which requires the strict protocol and relevant resources.
  - rvnx 6y ago
    Yes like in the UK where high-worth individuals are not subject to quarantine.
moralsupply 6y ago
How come people in Sweden don't use masks, run their lives normally and their Covid statistics are better than the ones in the USA? Turns out the Swedish declared they didn't know how to deal with Covid, and by not knowing they decided the best course of action was to do nothing as far as lockdowns and other authoritarian measures were concerned.
- mikeyouse 6y ago
  Turns out Sweden has completely abandoned their Laissez Faire attitude in the face of a >4x death rate and very little economic improvement compared to their neighboring countries. They’re instituting large gathering bans, closing schools, instituting curfews on bars and clubs, they’re just doing it months later than was reasonable. http://www.foxnews.com/world/swedens-pandemic-experiment-ends-spiking-coronavirus-cases http://www.foxnews.com/world/swedens-pandemic-experiment-end... Or more directly, a chart that says more than most articles: https://si-wsj-net.cdn.ampproject.org/i/s/si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/OG-FJ251_SWEDEN_4U_20201206073151.png https://si-wsj-net.cdn.ampproject.org/i/s/si.wsj.net/public/...
  - Camas 6y ago
    "Completely abandoned" here being used to mean still much more permissive than most western countries.
  - marcell 6y ago
    Alternate perspective is that their excess mortality has been average since the middle of summer, and is not spiking as of right now. This site https://www.euromomo.eu/ https://www.euromomo.eu/ lets you compare all this data by country.
- hansvm 6y ago
  Some stats are better and some aren't, but are you really saying that the reason some stats are better is _because_ they didn't do anything?
- kelchm 6y ago
  They didn’t do “nothing”. They gave guidance based on the data that was available and allowed individuals to make their own decisions on what course of action was best for them. A large subset of the population in the US is (rightly IMO) not okay with their state or local government dictating what businesses are forced to close or imposing restrictions that effectively put them out of business. By approaching the situation in this way it’s only further politicized the issue. I worry what will happen when something worse than COVID-19 comes in the future.
panzagl 6y ago
I can't read the article, but I listened to Adam Savage's podcast where he talked to one of the principles of BattleBots. He described the steps they had to go through to run/film during CoVid- it included dedicated compliances personnel, with continual enforcement and daily testing. So my guess is that the film company is facing a higher set of standards, and is allowed to operate because it does so.
TigeriusKirk 6y ago
The problem with the "we're tested all the time" explanation is that we've been told for months now that you can still be contagious even if you test negative and are asymptomatic.
- hammock 6y ago
  We have been told that, but the latest "science" says this is false. Study of 10 million patients published in Nature journal two weeks ago: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-19802-w https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-19802-w (Worth noting I was trying to find this link with Google and had a hard time. I had to switch to a foreign search engine)
  - TigeriusKirk 6y ago
    From just a couple weeks ago - https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03141-3 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03141-3 "Although there is a lower risk of transmission from asymptomatic people, they might still present a significant public-health risk because they are more likely to be out in the community than isolated at home, says Andrew Azman"
    - hammock 6y ago
      That's an editorial article that cites a meta-study and a theoretical model, and tries to draw a conclusion. Did you read my study? It's based on direct evidence. "There were no positive tests amongst 1,174 close contacts of asymptomatic cases."
- detaro 6y ago
  That depends on the test. It's specifically antibody tests that lag, PCR and antigen tests do indicate a lot earlier, and have a good chance of catching an infection early, because they directly detect presence of the virus. cf: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02661-2 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02661-2
mrfusion 6y ago
Honestly producing TV is the least essential thing I can think of.
- bromonkey 6y ago
  I think the same can be said about dining out.
traceddd 6y ago
People in this thread seem to be justifying it since the film industry reportedly does more testing. I don’t know if I really believe it’s better (actors take flights and likely don’t wear masks for filming, lots of catered food, tests aren’t perfect by any means, etc.), let’s assume that it is. The point still stands that it’s unfair. If the film industry is able to get a pass to operate by meeting some standard then that should be formalized and extended to these small businesses. Let them decide if it’s viable. Back room deals and private special exceptions are no way to operate.
- bestnameever 6y ago
  It is not fair and this is a reminder that life is not fair. We can't forget that outdoor dining was just shutdown again and Hollywood has been taking these precautions for months now. Telling restaurants they need to start testing every individual walking into their place of business really just does not seem feasible in immediate short-term given the current situation, unfortunately.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
gnusty_gnurc 6y ago
I don’t care what anyone says, at the end of the day the pro-lockdown crowd nowadays is largely able to afford sealing up in their apartment and work from home while they dispatch some immigrant to deliver them food. It’s inhumane and sanctimonious. These restrictions amount to a wealth transfer to the rich and unmitigated suffering to anyone struggling.
neonate 6y ago
https://archive.is/RAiPs https://archive.is/RAiPs
RickJWagner 6y ago
Outrageous. Another example of 'Shutdown for thee, but not for me'. The list of politicians who have been caught vacationing, going to grooming appointments, etc. is appalling. (These are politicians who have made strong statements condemning everyone else to stay home.) But the pols are small potatoes in comparison to the business edicts like this article is about. People's entire livelihoods are at stake.

76 points by undefined1 6y ago

Video link of the woman showing the situation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvJFf2kon2c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvJFf2kon2c

kurthr 6y ago
Because, California has declared entertainment industry workers essential... so they operate with a special permit, and they do "get tested regularly", but frankly this is still a bit outrageous.
- rvnx 6y ago
  This is where you can see the politics would be poor project managers. Filming TV shows is certainly not essential but just a nice to have. You can easily have a great life watching fictions that have been filmed a year ago.
  - hue3 6y ago
    The entertainment industry cannot let people realize we would live happily without its products. They have to keep the stream of shows and films coming so people don't realize that.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - aaron-santos 6y ago
    A large bored population is a great way to increase civil unrest.

almost_usual 6y ago

Government officials are being subjectively restrictive and hypocritical at times. Gavin Newsom, London Breed, San Licarrdo are violating their own guidance. Meanwhile people are unemployed and losing their businesses without getting any support. The stock market bailed out by the Fed reaches new highs.

Roboprog 6y ago
Meanwhile, Congress is working hard to ensure that we are all competitive. https://zeenews.india.com/world/relief-for-indian-it-professionals-as-us-senate-passes-high-skilled-immigrants-act-2328476.html https://zeenews.india.com/world/relief-for-indian-it-profess... Into the arena for the glory of Rome, I guess. (“Competition”)
spaetzleesser 6y ago
The situation with these politicians you mentioned and others before is completely unacceptable in my view and should lead to resignations. The number one principle should be to lead by example. If leaders don't do this people will become cynical very quickly and society erodes. The same could be said for business executives receiving huge bonuses while running a company into the ground.
bsder 6y ago
It's useless to go shooting at the nearby targets because the target you need to shoot at isn't convenient. 1) California is the way it is because a whole shitload of people won't take even simple precautions. The Bay Area shows what California could be. If everybody took the precautions seriously, things would be opening instead of closing. In particular, the restaurants are suffering precisely because of the kind of people who want to go to restaurants but won't obey restrictions. 2) The governors cannot print money and are looking at a budget Armageddon coming up--no matter WHAT they do it's going to suck. The Federal government CAN print money--and is shoveling it at the rich. Go harass the Senate Republicans. History suggests tar and feathers are effective.

pkaye 6y ago

> The county health department noted in a statement that film crews are regularly tested for the virus and that, unlike at restaurants, people do not mingle for “extended periods of time without their face covering.” Audiences are not allowed at film sites under the county’s guidelines.

rvnx 6y ago

There is a logic explained in the article. This is corporate restaurant (cafeteria) with employees routinely tested & little churn. If office restaurants are opened that seems logical.

kelchm 6y ago
It’s not a cafeteria — it’s literally a set of tents that were erected fifty feet from this restaurant owners own outdoor tent. It’s not logical at all.

ruminasean 6y ago

I work in TV, in an environment that's very strict. We're tested up to 4 times/week (I have friends who are tested daily), asked not to use mass transit, and many of us work so many hours that we have no time to do much socializing outside of the group of people working for the production who are all in the same boat. It's really the only place I go where I feel perfectly safe. Even when unmasked to eat, we don't sit together, we're always socially distant. Contrast this with my friends outside the business...they're going out semi-regularly, have only been tested when they want to see their family or get out of quarantining for 2 weeks after travel, think nothing of eating in the outdoor huts that are slowly getting more and more enclosed as the NYC weather gets colder. I'm very sympathetic to this woman and all restaurant owners in general, but the situations are not the same.

neither_color 6y ago
Restaurants were never a major source of transmission and your industry isnt really more essential. The only fact you stated is that you get tested more, which is a good argument, but I dont really buy your anecdote that you guys go out less than anyone else and this somehow justifies your privilege. This is a very sensitive topic because small businesses feed families and are being destroyed across the country so you'll have to do better than say "We're totally more well behaved than people who go to restaurants"
- graeme 6y ago
  Restaurants are majorly associated with spread. They’re unmasked, indoor environments where people talk. Here’s an interesting report where two people were infected with just five min of overlap by an unmasked person. Extremely detailed contact tracing by the south koreans. TV, by contrast, gets other people to stay at home in front of the TV and not be bored. A super vital service right now! https://zeynep.substack.com/p/small-data-big-implications https://zeynep.substack.com/p/small-data-big-implications
  - neither_color 6y ago
    The story in question is an outdoor dining area set up directly in front of an identical looking film crew dining area.

bestnameever 6y ago

The big difference between the two is that the film crew is likely tested each day before stepping on set and are also adhering to strict protocols. My best guess is that the seating is more separate. > I work in film and can confirm that the cast and crew test 3x per week to be able to work. Only 2 people per 6 foot table while eating. Tables are actually 6 feet apart. Covid positive numbers in the LA film industry are about 1 out of every 3500 test. Also since filmmaker have to test negative to work most filmmakers, in their personal lives, don’t socialize with the outside world hence the very low positivity rate. from /u/Alexis-in-Texas, https://www.reddit.com/r/CoronavirusCA/comments/k71v7w/outdoor_dining_is_closed_for_everyone_except/gepnicv?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/CoronavirusCA/comments/k71v7w/outdo... > My Roomate works on set for a network. He/everyone he works with are required to get rapid tested before they step on the set every single day. Anyone he comes in contact with on set has passed the same rapid test. from /u/buffyscrims, https://www.reddit.com/r/LosAngeles/comments/k6y5f5/bar_owner_in_los_angeles_ca_is_livid_to_see_that/genp97b?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/LosAngeles/comments/k6y5f5/bar_owne...

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
svrb 6y ago
In other words, the rules shouldn't apply to the elite because they're being safe unlike the dirty plebs?
- masklinn 6y ago
  Have you just discovered that the one true religion of america is the sacrosanct dollar? Movie productions are big money, they have the money to implement strict protocol and the money to acquire the relevant resources. Therefore they can do the thing which requires the strict protocol and relevant resources.
- rvnx 6y ago
  Yes like in the UK where high-worth individuals are not subject to quarantine.

moralsupply 6y ago

How come people in Sweden don't use masks, run their lives normally and their Covid statistics are better than the ones in the USA? Turns out the Swedish declared they didn't know how to deal with Covid, and by not knowing they decided the best course of action was to do nothing as far as lockdowns and other authoritarian measures were concerned.

mikeyouse 6y ago
Turns out Sweden has completely abandoned their Laissez Faire attitude in the face of a >4x death rate and very little economic improvement compared to their neighboring countries. They’re instituting large gathering bans, closing schools, instituting curfews on bars and clubs, they’re just doing it months later than was reasonable. http://www.foxnews.com/world/swedens-pandemic-experiment-ends-spiking-coronavirus-cases http://www.foxnews.com/world/swedens-pandemic-experiment-end... Or more directly, a chart that says more than most articles: https://si-wsj-net.cdn.ampproject.org/i/s/si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/OG-FJ251_SWEDEN_4U_20201206073151.png https://si-wsj-net.cdn.ampproject.org/i/s/si.wsj.net/public/...
- Camas 6y ago
  "Completely abandoned" here being used to mean still much more permissive than most western countries.
- marcell 6y ago
  Alternate perspective is that their excess mortality has been average since the middle of summer, and is not spiking as of right now. This site https://www.euromomo.eu/ https://www.euromomo.eu/ lets you compare all this data by country.
hansvm 6y ago
Some stats are better and some aren't, but are you really saying that the reason some stats are better is _because_ they didn't do anything?
kelchm 6y ago
They didn’t do “nothing”. They gave guidance based on the data that was available and allowed individuals to make their own decisions on what course of action was best for them. A large subset of the population in the US is (rightly IMO) not okay with their state or local government dictating what businesses are forced to close or imposing restrictions that effectively put them out of business. By approaching the situation in this way it’s only further politicized the issue. I worry what will happen when something worse than COVID-19 comes in the future.

panzagl 6y ago

I can't read the article, but I listened to Adam Savage's podcast where he talked to one of the principles of BattleBots. He described the steps they had to go through to run/film during CoVid- it included dedicated compliances personnel, with continual enforcement and daily testing. So my guess is that the film company is facing a higher set of standards, and is allowed to operate because it does so.

TigeriusKirk 6y ago

The problem with the "we're tested all the time" explanation is that we've been told for months now that you can still be contagious even if you test negative and are asymptomatic.

hammock 6y ago
We have been told that, but the latest "science" says this is false. Study of 10 million patients published in Nature journal two weeks ago: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-19802-w https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-19802-w (Worth noting I was trying to find this link with Google and had a hard time. I had to switch to a foreign search engine)
- TigeriusKirk 6y ago
  From just a couple weeks ago - https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03141-3 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03141-3 "Although there is a lower risk of transmission from asymptomatic people, they might still present a significant public-health risk because they are more likely to be out in the community than isolated at home, says Andrew Azman"
  - hammock 6y ago
    That's an editorial article that cites a meta-study and a theoretical model, and tries to draw a conclusion. Did you read my study? It's based on direct evidence. "There were no positive tests amongst 1,174 close contacts of asymptomatic cases."
detaro 6y ago
That depends on the test. It's specifically antibody tests that lag, PCR and antigen tests do indicate a lot earlier, and have a good chance of catching an infection early, because they directly detect presence of the virus. cf: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02661-2 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02661-2

mrfusion 6y ago

Honestly producing TV is the least essential thing I can think of.

bromonkey 6y ago
I think the same can be said about dining out.

traceddd 6y ago

People in this thread seem to be justifying it since the film industry reportedly does more testing. I don’t know if I really believe it’s better (actors take flights and likely don’t wear masks for filming, lots of catered food, tests aren’t perfect by any means, etc.), let’s assume that it is. The point still stands that it’s unfair. If the film industry is able to get a pass to operate by meeting some standard then that should be formalized and extended to these small businesses. Let them decide if it’s viable. Back room deals and private special exceptions are no way to operate.

bestnameever 6y ago
It is not fair and this is a reminder that life is not fair. We can't forget that outdoor dining was just shutdown again and Hollywood has been taking these precautions for months now. Telling restaurants they need to start testing every individual walking into their place of business really just does not seem feasible in immediate short-term given the current situation, unfortunately.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

gnusty_gnurc 6y ago

I don’t care what anyone says, at the end of the day the pro-lockdown crowd nowadays is largely able to afford sealing up in their apartment and work from home while they dispatch some immigrant to deliver them food. It’s inhumane and sanctimonious. These restrictions amount to a wealth transfer to the rich and unmitigated suffering to anyone struggling.

neonate 6y ago

https://archive.is/RAiPs https://archive.is/RAiPs

RickJWagner 6y ago

Outrageous. Another example of 'Shutdown for thee, but not for me'. The list of politicians who have been caught vacationing, going to grooming appointments, etc. is appalling. (These are politicians who have made strong statements condemning everyone else to stay home.) But the pols are small potatoes in comparison to the business edicts like this article is about. People's entire livelihoods are at stake.