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It's difficult to dig up old drama when "Docker" is in your Google search, but this article gives a peek: https://lwn.net/Articles/676831/ https://lwn.net/Artic

It's difficult to dig up old drama when "Docker" is in your Google search, but this article gives a peek: https://lwn.net/Articles/676831/ https://lwn.net/Articles/676831/

zapita 6y ago
Every time there’s drama about Docker being mean, it’s almost always a Red Hat employee behind it... Like this article, and the OP blog post. Maybe just a coincidence.
- X-Istence 6y ago
  The op has posted in this thread that they are no longer at Red Hat... so your comment is wrong.
  - zapita 6y ago
    I’m talking about the lwn article. The post is by an ex-RH employee and clearly influenced by their experience at RH.
    - andrewguenther 6y ago
      What is the claim here? That Red Hat are the ones being bullies and are misrepresenting the situation?
      - zapita 6y ago
        That clearly there has been a conflict between Red Hat and Docker employees in the past, and that when Red Hat employees tell their version of the story which happens to make them look good and the opposite side look bad, one should take that narrative with a grain of salt. Especially when one side is 100x larger and more powerful than the other by any metric: number of people, revenue, marketing and PR budget. Are we really supposed to believe uncritically that Red Hat, a publicly traded company with billions of revenue and an army of engineers at their command, are being bullied by a startup of what, a couple hundred people? I’m sure the people at Docker did behave badly in some way to piss off people at Red Hat, but whenever I dig into the underlying facts, it’s always something silly and sometimes ridiculous. I’ve seen a talk by a Red Engineer dedicated entirely to the topic of how mean Docker maintainers were to him. The actual offense was 1) refusing to merge certain PRs Red Hat deemed important, 2) a tweet by an individual maintainer’s personal twitter account making fun of Red Hat for sending low-quality patches. That’s the kind of ridiculous petty food fights this whole “Docker vs the world” drama is built on. I mean, who cares? TLDR: the real story is probably more complicated than “everything was great then Docker was mean and then they failed because they were mean, the end” and best told by a less biased source.
        koffiezet 6y ago
        Yeah I followed Docker from the very beginning, and this was also what I remembered. The biggest incident, if I remember well, was related to the layerfs stuff, which was supported by Ubuntu, but which RH refused to include. Instead they pretty arrogantly pushed to merge a PR which was breaking other stuff in Docker, and were pissed when the maintainers refused to. That whole thing obviously rubbed people working on Docker the wrong way, which was the beginning of the pretty sour relationship. After that I don't think there was a lot of goodwill from Docker towards RH, probably causing a lot more issues..
freedomben 6y ago
Thanks for this link. That's terrific info.

It's difficult to dig up old drama when "Docker" is in your Google search, but this article gives a peek: https://lwn.net/Articles/676831/ https://lwn.net/Articles/676831/

zapita 6y ago

Every time there’s drama about Docker being mean, it’s almost always a Red Hat employee behind it... Like this article, and the OP blog post. Maybe just a coincidence.

X-Istence 6y ago
The op has posted in this thread that they are no longer at Red Hat... so your comment is wrong.
- zapita 6y ago
  I’m talking about the lwn article. The post is by an ex-RH employee and clearly influenced by their experience at RH.
  - andrewguenther 6y ago
    What is the claim here? That Red Hat are the ones being bullies and are misrepresenting the situation?
    - zapita 6y ago
      That clearly there has been a conflict between Red Hat and Docker employees in the past, and that when Red Hat employees tell their version of the story which happens to make them look good and the opposite side look bad, one should take that narrative with a grain of salt. Especially when one side is 100x larger and more powerful than the other by any metric: number of people, revenue, marketing and PR budget. Are we really supposed to believe uncritically that Red Hat, a publicly traded company with billions of revenue and an army of engineers at their command, are being bullied by a startup of what, a couple hundred people? I’m sure the people at Docker did behave badly in some way to piss off people at Red Hat, but whenever I dig into the underlying facts, it’s always something silly and sometimes ridiculous. I’ve seen a talk by a Red Engineer dedicated entirely to the topic of how mean Docker maintainers were to him. The actual offense was 1) refusing to merge certain PRs Red Hat deemed important, 2) a tweet by an individual maintainer’s personal twitter account making fun of Red Hat for sending low-quality patches. That’s the kind of ridiculous petty food fights this whole “Docker vs the world” drama is built on. I mean, who cares? TLDR: the real story is probably more complicated than “everything was great then Docker was mean and then they failed because they were mean, the end” and best told by a less biased source.
      - koffiezet 6y ago
        Yeah I followed Docker from the very beginning, and this was also what I remembered. The biggest incident, if I remember well, was related to the layerfs stuff, which was supported by Ubuntu, but which RH refused to include. Instead they pretty arrogantly pushed to merge a PR which was breaking other stuff in Docker, and were pissed when the maintainers refused to. That whole thing obviously rubbed people working on Docker the wrong way, which was the beginning of the pretty sour relationship. After that I don't think there was a lot of goodwill from Docker towards RH, probably causing a lot more issues..

freedomben 6y ago

Thanks for this link. That's terrific info.