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In the UK, I have low-cost, fast, reliable, accessible money transfers. Basic bank accounts are free, and come with reliable free instant transfers to any other

In the UK, I have low-cost, fast, reliable, accessible money transfers. Basic bank accounts are free, and come with reliable free instant transfers to any other UK bank. That may not be reality in all countries, but it is in many. That's quite a high bar for rival payment methods to clear, but I think the main problem for corporate currencies like this will be rivalry from government issuers. Governments jealously guard the right to issue currency, as they rightly perceive it as one of their biggest holds over citizens. Any sufficiently powerful currency would attract their scrutiny. I do think payments are ripe for disruption though - when money is sent over a free global network between pre-vetted partners (i.e. bank customers) there is no reason the transaction fees should be high, even internationally. I'm not clear how a blockchain based currency is going to help facilitate that, but would love to see a revolution in payments which made them simpler and not tied to archaic concepts like sort codes and account numbers, and reduced the fees charged to customers and merchants for payment networks or card issuers which don't do the hard KYC work (banks and payment processors do that). The problems here are in verified identity tied to real people, not how to perform transactions quickly, or things like anonymous trust-free transactions which nobody actually wants.

AsyncAwait 6y ago
> In the UK, I have low-cost, fast, reliable, accessible money transfers. Basic bank accounts are free, and come with reliable free instant transfers to any other UK bank. As an EU citizen living in the UK, it boggles my mind that "EU Faster Payments" was not implemented as part of the eurozone, if not the EU as a whole. As far as I know there's nothing technically preventing this, anyone has an insight into why it isn't a thing?
- dboreham 6y ago
  >As far as I know there's nothing technically preventing this, anyone has an insight into why it isn't a thing? Banks wanting to make more money?
  - grenoire 6y ago
    Sort of, indirectly. The biggest incentive is not having to invest in the new infrastructure required to comply with the standards.
- numpad0 6y ago
  Cybersecurity/trust issues? Can’t imagine a region wide inter bank network to be more technologically better protected than even Gmail.
- ByteWelder 6y ago
  It does exist, but it’s just taking a while for all banks to adopt it. Most/all Dutch banks have adopted it already. https://www.europeanpaymentscouncil.eu/what-we-do/sepa-instant-credit-transfer https://www.europeanpaymentscouncil.eu/what-we-do/sepa-insta...
  - AsyncAwait 6y ago
    That's great, thanks for the pointer.
  - kergonath 6y ago
    In France banks charge a small fee for instant transfers (around €1). Some banks include free instant transfers in some of their offers, but usually not for their free accounts. I think it’s just a matter of time for it to become free and universal. Just like some banks use to make you pay to use their app or website (!).
- riffraff 6y ago
  I regularly transfer money between three European countries with instant payments, it works just fine but not all banks have implemented it.
giovannibonetti 6y ago
> In the UK, I have low-cost, fast, reliable, accessible money transfers. Basic bank accounts are free, and come with reliable free instant transfers to any other UK bank. That may not be reality in all countries, but it is in many. It is also a reality in Brazil. Last month the government and the banks released a standard money transfer protocol (PIX) which superseeds the other protocols (similar to ACH in USA). Cheap, instant payments 24h a day regardless of the bank are a reality here today. Hence I don't see FB having much success in Brazil with this product.
- emteycz 6y ago
  What about sending money out of Brazil, and non-permanent residents of Brazil?
  - mikaelmello 6y ago
    Any person with a CPF, our individual taxpayer registry identification, can use PIX. Non-permanent residents of Brazil are included in this category. As for international transfers, the Central Bank is looking at simplifying existing regulations in order to allow international transfers as late as 2023
- rglullis 6y ago
  > I don't see FB having much success in Brazil with this product. Really?! They just need to tie whatsapp payments with a novi wallet, perhaps offer a few bucks as bait and suddenly they get millions of users. Never underestimate the power of a monopoly position.
viraptor 6y ago
> not tied to archaic concepts like sort codes and account numbers What are the problems with sort codes and account numbers? Are you after binding the account to your identity like Australian PayID?
- andylynch 6y ago
  Odd thing given the UK context - the major banks and many smaller let you pay someone with just their mobile number (it’s called PayM). Although given its bank payments, account numbers are far from archaic, and new things like confirmation payee help make the whole system more secure. Now it you want to talk about archaic, how about MT103 and friends?
- grey-area 6y ago
  I quite like the inversion of account control in systems like bitcoin to put the user in charge, though this is not without problems. It would be nice if uk banking systems were not stuck in this odd world of accounts tied to physical branches by a sort code, or indeed if we just moved to global identifiers that were portable between banks and owned by a person, not a gov or bank.
TuringNYC 6y ago
even in the countries where you do have this, what about cross-border transactions...those usually again become messy. Even between two countries which each have a good internal system as you describe.

AsyncAwait 6y ago

> In the UK, I have low-cost, fast, reliable, accessible money transfers. Basic bank accounts are free, and come with reliable free instant transfers to any other UK bank. As an EU citizen living in the UK, it boggles my mind that "EU Faster Payments" was not implemented as part of the eurozone, if not the EU as a whole. As far as I know there's nothing technically preventing this, anyone has an insight into why it isn't a thing?

dboreham 6y ago
>As far as I know there's nothing technically preventing this, anyone has an insight into why it isn't a thing? Banks wanting to make more money?
- grenoire 6y ago
  Sort of, indirectly. The biggest incentive is not having to invest in the new infrastructure required to comply with the standards.
numpad0 6y ago
Cybersecurity/trust issues? Can’t imagine a region wide inter bank network to be more technologically better protected than even Gmail.
ByteWelder 6y ago
It does exist, but it’s just taking a while for all banks to adopt it. Most/all Dutch banks have adopted it already. https://www.europeanpaymentscouncil.eu/what-we-do/sepa-instant-credit-transfer https://www.europeanpaymentscouncil.eu/what-we-do/sepa-insta...
- AsyncAwait 6y ago
  That's great, thanks for the pointer.
- kergonath 6y ago
  In France banks charge a small fee for instant transfers (around €1). Some banks include free instant transfers in some of their offers, but usually not for their free accounts. I think it’s just a matter of time for it to become free and universal. Just like some banks use to make you pay to use their app or website (!).
riffraff 6y ago
I regularly transfer money between three European countries with instant payments, it works just fine but not all banks have implemented it.

giovannibonetti 6y ago

> In the UK, I have low-cost, fast, reliable, accessible money transfers. Basic bank accounts are free, and come with reliable free instant transfers to any other UK bank. That may not be reality in all countries, but it is in many. It is also a reality in Brazil. Last month the government and the banks released a standard money transfer protocol (PIX) which superseeds the other protocols (similar to ACH in USA). Cheap, instant payments 24h a day regardless of the bank are a reality here today. Hence I don't see FB having much success in Brazil with this product.

emteycz 6y ago
What about sending money out of Brazil, and non-permanent residents of Brazil?
- mikaelmello 6y ago
  Any person with a CPF, our individual taxpayer registry identification, can use PIX. Non-permanent residents of Brazil are included in this category. As for international transfers, the Central Bank is looking at simplifying existing regulations in order to allow international transfers as late as 2023
rglullis 6y ago
> I don't see FB having much success in Brazil with this product. Really?! They just need to tie whatsapp payments with a novi wallet, perhaps offer a few bucks as bait and suddenly they get millions of users. Never underestimate the power of a monopoly position.

viraptor 6y ago

> not tied to archaic concepts like sort codes and account numbers What are the problems with sort codes and account numbers? Are you after binding the account to your identity like Australian PayID?

andylynch 6y ago
Odd thing given the UK context - the major banks and many smaller let you pay someone with just their mobile number (it’s called PayM). Although given its bank payments, account numbers are far from archaic, and new things like confirmation payee help make the whole system more secure. Now it you want to talk about archaic, how about MT103 and friends?
grey-area 6y ago
I quite like the inversion of account control in systems like bitcoin to put the user in charge, though this is not without problems. It would be nice if uk banking systems were not stuck in this odd world of accounts tied to physical branches by a sort code, or indeed if we just moved to global identifiers that were portable between banks and owned by a person, not a gov or bank.

TuringNYC 6y ago

even in the countries where you do have this, what about cross-border transactions...those usually again become messy. Even between two countries which each have a good internal system as you describe.