4 ms·

I can possibly believe it, just because similar RFID using high power sources are known about, from the original ‘the thing’ by Theremin in 1945, to stuff expos

I can possibly believe it, just because similar RFID using high power sources are known about, from the original ‘the thing’ by Theremin in 1945, to stuff exposed by Snowden like https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2014/01/ctx4000_nsa_exp.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2014/01/ctx4000_nsa_e... and https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2014/03/ragemaster_nsa.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2014/03/ragemaster_ns... However, any potential substance to this will always get lost behind the anti-5G tinfoil brigade, let alone propaganda and spycraft, so we’ll never know the truth.

davidy123 6y ago
Perhaps because of the tinfoil brigade (people want to put down any threads conclusively, associating them with lunacy is an effective strategy), I haven't been able to conclusively find out if directed or 'strong' radio signals can be simply noticed. I don't mean the signal is harmful, although an unexplained sense causes distraction and stress. I have read the WHO report, but at some point it kind of trails off. The reason I ask … is I have noticed a sense of pressure and other commonly called out symptoms when turning on new wireless gear. The first time I noticed this, before I was aware of specific concerns, was with a first gen wifi WAP. It still happens, but since I'm now aware of the supposed phenomenon other factors may be prevalent. Going further down the rabbit hole, different people are measurably sensitive to different things[1]. It could be that some people notice these type of linked low level sensations more. Then again, I haven't methodically gone further into the rabbit hole and just try to see if I can notice a new device being powered up in a blind test. The most likely cause is, I guess, background tension about powering up a new device (I lived though pre-21st century gear when things rarely "just worked") gets subconsciously amplified into noticing a background physical sensation that was already there (I have mild tinnitus, and in general the body is a dynamic smorgasbord of information). 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olfaction#Genetics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olfaction#Genetics
- cesarb 6y ago
  > Then again, I haven't methodically gone further into the rabbit hole and just try to see if I can notice a new device being powered up in a blind test. There is a well known mechanism by which it might be possible for you to notice a new device being powered up: coil whine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coil_whine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coil_whine). It was very common in the CRT era (some people could instantly tell whenever a television set was powered on), but still persists today (for instance, it's a known problem on some laptop models).
  - StringyBob 6y ago
    Cheap electronics, particularly with switch mode power supplies can be pretty bad for magnetostriction in transformers/inductors or piezoelectric effect in capacitors leading to these high pitched noises. When optimising for the cheapest borderline in spec components to get the bill of materials down this is even more likely. When these noises are present they can be extremely difficult to track down where they are coming from in a room
  - webmaven 6y ago
    > There is a well known mechanism by which it might be possible for you to notice a new device being powered up: coil whine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coil_whine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coil_whine). There are other known (though less common) mechanisms, notably RF reception through dental fillings or bridgework. While the barrier to actually hearing intelligible radio broadcasts is pretty high, simple awareness of a nearby transmitting device is... less unlikely, and might exhibit as something like referred pain, or a vague sense of pressure, or be mistaken for tinnitus.
  - davidy123 6y ago
    I don't have fillings or similar, but something like coil whine could certainly be a factor. The question then becomes, does coil whine have any adverse effects, like loss of sensitivity in its spectrum, or via distraction?
- doublerabbit 6y ago
  > The reason I ask … is I have noticed a sense of pressure and other commonly called out symptoms when turning on new wireless gear. As do I. But no one ever wants to believe you. If I am in close proximity of a WiFi router as example: I get block-headed and pulsing-zap feeling above my ears. Hearing deteriorates causing my hearing to go all tinny. I've mitigated it by turning my WiFi router transmit power to half which helps but doesn't help in office environments where the router is mounted above or if I am round at someones home.
  - davidy123 6y ago
    Yes, I notice the tinny hearing effect, and something specific to the sensitive nasal membranes (basically my nostrils feel like they've dried up). I have also turned down the power of any transmitters that are close to where I sit. But I'm also a nerd so am surrounded by equipment, with at least eight pieces of wireless equipment in my office. A part of me wonders if by denying this sensitivity, I'm shutting that sense out, regardless it still has a background effect. If it exists at all, which is the other problem (I can at least claim to be a critical neurotic).

davidy123 6y ago

Perhaps because of the tinfoil brigade (people want to put down any threads conclusively, associating them with lunacy is an effective strategy), I haven't been able to conclusively find out if directed or 'strong' radio signals can be simply noticed. I don't mean the signal is harmful, although an unexplained sense causes distraction and stress. I have read the WHO report, but at some point it kind of trails off. The reason I ask … is I have noticed a sense of pressure and other commonly called out symptoms when turning on new wireless gear. The first time I noticed this, before I was aware of specific concerns, was with a first gen wifi WAP. It still happens, but since I'm now aware of the supposed phenomenon other factors may be prevalent. Going further down the rabbit hole, different people are measurably sensitive to different things[1]. It could be that some people notice these type of linked low level sensations more. Then again, I haven't methodically gone further into the rabbit hole and just try to see if I can notice a new device being powered up in a blind test. The most likely cause is, I guess, background tension about powering up a new device (I lived though pre-21st century gear when things rarely "just worked") gets subconsciously amplified into noticing a background physical sensation that was already there (I have mild tinnitus, and in general the body is a dynamic smorgasbord of information). 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olfaction#Genetics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olfaction#Genetics

cesarb 6y ago
> Then again, I haven't methodically gone further into the rabbit hole and just try to see if I can notice a new device being powered up in a blind test. There is a well known mechanism by which it might be possible for you to notice a new device being powered up: coil whine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coil_whine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coil_whine). It was very common in the CRT era (some people could instantly tell whenever a television set was powered on), but still persists today (for instance, it's a known problem on some laptop models).
- StringyBob 6y ago
  Cheap electronics, particularly with switch mode power supplies can be pretty bad for magnetostriction in transformers/inductors or piezoelectric effect in capacitors leading to these high pitched noises. When optimising for the cheapest borderline in spec components to get the bill of materials down this is even more likely. When these noises are present they can be extremely difficult to track down where they are coming from in a room
- webmaven 6y ago
  > There is a well known mechanism by which it might be possible for you to notice a new device being powered up: coil whine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coil_whine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coil_whine). There are other known (though less common) mechanisms, notably RF reception through dental fillings or bridgework. While the barrier to actually hearing intelligible radio broadcasts is pretty high, simple awareness of a nearby transmitting device is... less unlikely, and might exhibit as something like referred pain, or a vague sense of pressure, or be mistaken for tinnitus.
- davidy123 6y ago
  I don't have fillings or similar, but something like coil whine could certainly be a factor. The question then becomes, does coil whine have any adverse effects, like loss of sensitivity in its spectrum, or via distraction?
doublerabbit 6y ago
> The reason I ask … is I have noticed a sense of pressure and other commonly called out symptoms when turning on new wireless gear. As do I. But no one ever wants to believe you. If I am in close proximity of a WiFi router as example: I get block-headed and pulsing-zap feeling above my ears. Hearing deteriorates causing my hearing to go all tinny. I've mitigated it by turning my WiFi router transmit power to half which helps but doesn't help in office environments where the router is mounted above or if I am round at someones home.
- davidy123 6y ago
  Yes, I notice the tinny hearing effect, and something specific to the sensitive nasal membranes (basically my nostrils feel like they've dried up). I have also turned down the power of any transmitters that are close to where I sit. But I'm also a nerd so am surrounded by equipment, with at least eight pieces of wireless equipment in my office. A part of me wonders if by denying this sensitivity, I'm shutting that sense out, regardless it still has a background effect. If it exists at all, which is the other problem (I can at least claim to be a critical neurotic).