7 ms·

Isaac Newton’s attempts to unlock secret code of pyramids

88 points by samizdis 6y ago

jjoe 6y ago
It's interesting that 400 years later, especially in this day and age of freedoms and lesser stigmatization, we still have this dissonance. People are unwilling to listen to their inner instincts that maybe not everything we believe in must be a published paper in a reputable journal.
- jonnytran 6y ago
  I was also just about to post about how there's still a ton of stigma around alternative theories of history. In particular, the ones about how the pyramids were built by ancient civilizations. The end result is that it's tough to find the real work being done because most credible people are driven underground. We're left with the conspiracy theorists.
  - andi999 6y ago
    Here is my bone with these 'alternative' theories, a lot contain a lot of snake oil (of course I didnt look at much) and are disingenious. Let me give you an example. (I think it was a video by Däniken). He takes a ancient egyptian metal-vessel (probaly copper amphore) and then says:'the amazing thing is, if you just add a little acid and a wire to this amazing device it will act like a battery. So did the egyptians have electricity?' Or something like that. Of course that will happen, and it will happen to any metal cup, it does not show anything about having the knowledge about electricity of a society, but people who do not know much physics will then lead astray to 'so how do you explain this'. If they would have found the wire (of a different metal) inside the jar, in some device... ok... but this is like finding a rock of uranium and saying:'they could have made nuclear power plants from this'. When I saw they had to go this low, I was pretty sure they have nothing.
    - Radim 6y ago
      Your post is seriously meta: To demonstrate how snake-oil people leap to conclusions and paint with a broad brush based on flimsy evidence… …you leap to conclusions and paint with a broad brush based on anecdata. > When I saw they had to go this low, I was pretty sure they have nothing.
      - andi999 6y ago
        Well, I remember it was one of the 'big-guys' of this alternative theories. So I believe if 'they' had something he would have used it. But please go ahead, point me to the best piece of evidence (no goal-post shifting later, please)
        txmachinery 6y ago
        Possibly relevant (Baghdad Battery): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baghdad_Battery https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baghdad_Battery
        rimiform 6y ago
        >"In March 2012, Professor Elizabeth Stone of Stony Brook University, an expert on Iraqi archaeology, returning from the first archaeological expedition in Iraq after 20 years, stated that she does not know a single archaeologist who believed that these were batteries." Sounds great!
        Radim 6y ago
        OK. What are you goal posts though? :) Here's my (hopefully charitable) reading of your argument: 1. Alternative theories of history are disingenious (sic) snake oil, because they're based on weak circumstantial evidence. They use flawed reasoning to support strawman interpretations of the data. 2. To support this theory, you mention a video you saw (well, maybe saw…) of one guy X (Däniken) claiming something about Y (vessel batteries?). Don't you find the irony delicious? All theories were "alternative" at some point. Some stood the test of time and evidence; some didn't (Gobekli Tepe embarrassed quite a few "mainstream" scientists in its time); some are in the academic weighing right now (the Younger Dryas Impact Hypothesis).
  - jan_Inkepa 6y ago
    [ I guess you mean "high technology" ancient civilisations? ] The problem is that wrong/inadequate/inferior theories will tend to be neglected, professionals will be stay clear of them, and "if only we had better theorists" could be a rallying call in those cases as well. "If only there wasn't such a bias against phlogistonism we'd have higher-quality phlogiston research." Weirdly enough I don't think I've heard this argument much in the crackpot science world, where I have more experience, but it is not uncommon for people to imprint on obsolete theories that modern working scientists can't really discuss because they don't know them in detail or maybe even in broad strokes (epicycles or the like). I'm happy to leave it to the professionals. History is a quite high-evidence high-rigour domain, with many converging sources that confirm earlier theories (genetics/linguistics/carbon dating/etc.).
- rimiform 6y ago
  I couldn't disagree more. The democratisation of (the idea of) science had a strong role to play in the proliferation of conspiracy theories and anti-science sentiment in general. I think many people are doing exactly what you say and listening to their instincts. That's a negative development, not a positive one.
abellerose 6y ago
Eternal recurrence is a concept supposedly found in ancient Egypt and where one can understand all the causes & effects that made our life can theoretically repeat for infinity. The bible story about Adam & Eve is somewhat significant to highlight the cause of eating the forbidden fruit resulting in the effect of original sin but fails to highlight God being the cause for such a forbidden fruit existing in the first place; or one could even argue God being the cause for giving them free will. Anyway from the foregoing, it makes sense scientists can benefit from looking at historical events, stories, and traditions for improving perception. I don't know why people get shamed or embarrassed about reading things like magic or alchemy as an example. Science likely benefits from creativity and what's more creative than imagination or unrealistic topics. Another source related to the topic: https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/newtons-temple-596350 https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/newtons-temple-596350 "My Dear Yahuda, Newton’s writings on biblical subjects seem to me especially interesting because they provide deep insight into the characteristic intellectual features and working methods of this important man. The divine origin of the Bible is for Newton absolutely certain, a conviction that stands in curious contrast to the critical skepticism that characterizes his attitude toward the churches. From this confidence stems the firm conviction that the seemingly obscure parts of the Bible must contain important revelations, to illuminate which one need only decipher its symbolic language. Newton seeks this decipherment, or interpretation, by means of his sharp systematic thinking grounded on the careful use of all the sources at his disposal. While the formative development of Newton’s lasting physics works must remain shrouded in darkness, because Newton apparently destroyed his preparatory works, we do have in this domain of his works on the Bible drafts and their repeated modification; these mostly unpublished writings therefore allow a highly interesting insight into the mental workshop of this unique thinker. - Einstein. September 1940, Saranac Lake P.S. I think that it is wonderful that the writings will all be kept together and made available for research.”
sam_goody 6y ago
While I don't believe the pyramids can tell about the apocalypse or the Bible, the math of the pyramids is more complex than one would think. Most famously, the great pyramid has eight sides (not four) [1] and it has at least two massive hidden chambers that no-one can figure out [2]. Some of the Egyptian pyramids had stereograms inside, they have fantastic mazes of pathways and traps. Building these things (like the inner angle of the great pyramid) must have been quite a feat, the logic for some of these decisions still escape us, and the style of building is not consistent from one pyramid to the next. (I haven't verified that these sites are good, just took the first links on DDG, but the facts were widely reported and are easy to verify.) [1]: https://curiosmos.com/were-all-3-ancient-giza-pyramids-built-with-8-and-not-4-sides/ https://curiosmos.com/were-all-3-ancient-giza-pyramids-built... [2]: https://www.dailygrail.com/2019/11/mysterious-hidden-chamber-in-great-pyramid-confirmed-by-new-scans/ https://www.dailygrail.com/2019/11/mysterious-hidden-chamber...
- throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
  > Some of the Egyptian pyramids had stereograms inside, cite? > they have fantastic mazes of pathways and traps. And they have guys in a cowboy hat with a whip collecting relics too. Probably. What traps? (edit: and mazes?)
bmitc 6y ago
Newton was a nut, in nearly every positive and negative, sense of the word. I highly recommend James Gleick's Isaac Newton: https://www.amazon.com/Isaac-Newton-James-Gleick/dp/1400032954 https://www.amazon.com/Isaac-Newton-James-Gleick/dp/14000329... It is an engrossing and not long read on Newton. It covers a fair amount of his heretical thoughts and feuds with people and paints a rather complete picture of the man. It's basically common knowledge now, but Newton's writings on alchemy and religion are in vast excess of his writings on physics and mathematics. It seems that intriguing questions that he couldn't find answers for almost made him rabid, in a sense.
- DEADBEEFC0FFEE 6y ago
  That's a good book.
  - selimthegrim 6y ago
    If you liked that one you’ll love Westfall’s Never At Rest
- DoingIsLearning 6y ago
  I remember reading somewhere that many of the intelectuals of the time (including Newton) would likely have suffered some degree of mercury poisoning (from alchemy related experiments). This could well explain the paranoia and odd behaviour later in life.
  - varvar 6y ago
    Alchemy means "the process of transmutation by which to fuse or reunite with the divine or original form" which in reality doesn't deal with concrete materials, but it is about something akin to psychological transformation. Practitioners of alchemy would uphold deceptive ideas about it, in order to protect themselves. I highly doubt that Newton was as silly and foolish as misunderstanding what alchemy is fundamentally about. However supposedly he was found to have mercury in his hair upon being found dead, which certainly discredits the occult and esoteric part of his studies. The public image of Newton is heavily shaped by the British Government, the whole thing about the Enlightement scientist that society is supposed to emulate and so on. It's quite the rabbit hole to investigate.
osullivj 6y ago
Neal Stephenson's System of the World trilogy has a lot to say on Newton's alchemical investigations.
- DEADBEEFC0FFEE 6y ago
  I really ought to finish the last book.
- prepend 6y ago
  I remember it captured Newton’s nuttiness and strong interest in experiment and knowledge when Stephenson had a scene where Newton used knitting needles inserted under his own eyeballs to distort the shape of his eyeball and describe what he saw.
ducktective 6y ago
How in the hell it took this long for Newton's "unpublished" notes to be unveiled? I mean the guy was one of the most famous scientist/mathematician of all time. I can justify the reluctance out of religious reasons(?) in 1600 or up until like 1800, but after that, after he has been long dead, what excuse could possibly be to not publish ALL of his works? Is it because someone just bought them all and kept it for himself? Any history expert want to chime in?
- acqq 6y ago
  From the site which is selling it: https://www.sothebys.com/en/buy/auction/2020/english-literature-history-science-childrens-books-and-illustrations/newton-autograph-mansucript-notes-on-the-great https://www.sothebys.com/en/buy/auction/2020/english-literat... Newton "left behind vast manuscript writings on biblical exegesis and other theological subjects, presumably in the hope that his secret knowledge would reach a select and receptive readership in future generations. The true range of Newton's writings has only become apparent remarkably recently. Such was Newton's reputation as the exemplar of the Enlightenment scientist that for generations there was little willingness to publish material that might seem to undermine that status. It was only with the sale of Newton's papers by the Earl of Portsmouth in these rooms in 1936 that the scale of his interest in alchemy, in particular, became generally recognised, and it is even more recently that the extent of his theological writing has been acknowledged." The pages now being on sale "are likely to have been part of a larger lot sold in the 1936 auction of the Newton papers, but they cannot be positively identified in the sale catalogue." You can browse a lot (or all?) of papers which were bought then and ended in the National Library of Israel: https://web.nli.org.il/sites/NLI/English/collections/Humanities/newton/Pages/default.aspx https://web.nli.org.il/sites/NLI/English/collections/Humanit... "The manuscripts found at the National Library are from the collection of Abraham Shalom Yehuda (1877-1951), an expert in Middle Eastern affairs. Professor Yehuda purchased the manuscripts at a public auction at Sotheby’s of London in 1936. Other manuscripts in the collection, dealing mostly with the topic of alchemy, were purchased by the well-known economist, John Maynard Keynes, and are located at King’s College in Cambridge University." Also, Isaac Newton’s Works, University of Oxford, (mostly or all?) donated by Keynes, should be somewhere here, among the works from other collections: http://www.newtonproject.ox.ac.uk/texts/newtons-works/all http://www.newtonproject.ox.ac.uk/texts/newtons-works/all and the background behind that: https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsnr.1952.0006 https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsnr.1952.000... In "1872" "the purely scientific papers were generously given to the University of Cambridge." (Note: Newton studied there). "The event which stimulated Keynes to his greatest effort in bookcollecting was the dispersal at Sotheby’s on 13 and 14 July 1936 of the Newton papers of Viscount Lymington, to whom they had descended from Catherine Conduitt, Viscountess Lymington, Newton’s great-niece. The relentless pressure of death-duties made it necessary to sell this great collection."
llimos 6y ago
I read a fascinating article about Newton's studies in theology[1], particularly Jewish sources and the Jewish Temple. It's based on papers currently in Israel's National Archives[2]. He very much used the same scientific techniques for all his studies, whatever the topic. The most fascinating thing is that, based on these methods, he predicted the return of the Jews to the ancient Land of Israel starting in the 1880's (correct), and that a great misfortune would befall them in the 1940's (also correct). I do not know how many things he got wrong, or if these were just coincidences. But the article was an interesting read nonetheless. [1] https://iyun.org.il/maremakom/newtons-theology/ https://iyun.org.il/maremakom/newtons-theology/ In Hebrew, and unfortunately Google translates it very badly for some reason [2] https://web.nli.org.il/sites/NLI/English/collections/Humanities/newton/Pages/list.aspx https://web.nli.org.il/sites/NLI/English/collections/Humanit...
- jakeva 6y ago
  That was a fascinating read, but without links to the original I have to remain a little bit skeptical. I tried to access the documents in your second link hoping I could search for myself, but it looks like I'm locked out.
  - acqq 6y ago
    The claim is that Newton figured out the dates from the Book of Daniel. The book of his about his conclusions was published in 1733 (he died in 1727) and is available in different formats: Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Observations-Upon-Prophecies-Daniel-Apocalypse/dp/1603864024 https://www.amazon.com/Observations-Upon-Prophecies-Daniel-A... 1733 original: https://archive.org/details/observationsupon1733newt https://archive.org/details/observationsupon1733newt Some PDF version: http://www.historicism.com/Newton/newton.pdf http://www.historicism.com/Newton/newton.pdf One author (Matania Z. Kochavi) writes that it can be seen that Newton wrote that believing he was personally chosen to understand the hidden code in the Bible, and when and how there will be the Second Coming of Christ, and "end of times" based on such logic like "flowing water represented a friendly encounter, whereas a flood symbolized war; similarly, a single boat sailing at sea was an image of friendship, whereas a flotilla represented a battle." or "three sets of symbols" "appeared in various places throughout the text. One set was composed of metals: gold, silver, copper, and iron. The second set used symbols from the animal kingdom: the lion, bear, leopard, and the "Fourth Beast." The third set made use of the ram and the goat."
DevX101 6y ago
Newton often gets derided for his unfruitful efforts at unlocking alchemy, but there's something admirable there. He was willing to take on bold, grand ideas that were not obviously wrong. I'd even venture to say that in the 17th century, the concept of alchemy sounds much more reasonable than the idea that there is an 'invisible' force of attraction between everything in the universe. A lot of this derision for Newton's alchemy comes from hindsight knowledge of the hundreds of years of chemistry knowledge we've since accumulated. And in the end, he wasn't really wrong in principle about whether alchemy is possible. He was just off on the scale of energy required.
- acqq 6y ago
  Yes, modern chemistry starts with Lavoisier's "Traité Élémentaire de Chimie" (1789) and development of chemistry as a science took a lot of time: only in 20th century the existence of atoms was finally proven. Up to then there were still some scientists who denied the existence of atoms, one of the last of the famous ones: Ernst Mach: "he famously declared, after an 1897 lecture by Ludwig Boltzmann at the Imperial Academy of Science in Vienna: "I don't believe that atoms exist!"" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Mach https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Mach Newton died in 1727. He followed however not only unscientific paths in alchemy, but also in his analysis of the ancient texts. Both reflect the time he lived and his own beliefs, which influenced these endeavors. With hindsight, we know that these investigations didn't advance humanity's knowledge, but are interesting for history. It can be that he even discovered something scientifically interesting while doing alchemy, but he had his reasons to try to hide that work and apparently some of these papers never survived to this day. And what survived wasn't public until 20th century, contrary to the principles of science.
  - fsloth 6y ago
    Yes, the history of the atomic model where it became indisputable is _quite_ recent. And before this the structure of matter was more or less a disputable mystery. The atomic model became undisputable after Jean Perrin's experiments in 1908 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Baptiste_Perrin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Baptiste_Perrin And only after being prompted by the investigations of Einstein published in 1905 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9Cber_die_von_der_molekularkinetischen_Theorie_der_W%C3%A4rme_geforderte_Bewegung_von_in_ruhenden_Fl%C3%BCssigkeiten_suspendierten_Teilchen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9Cber_die_von_der_molekula... The size of this mystery gets forgotten in modern discussion - but getting to the bottom on how the world is built was among the biggest triumphs of modern world. And the people who lived before the 20th century should not be belittled for lacking this knowledge.
known 6y ago
https://archive.vn/XsM8A https://archive.vn/XsM8A
dmarchand90 6y ago
Interesting how at this point in history it was thought that the Egyptians knew alchemical secrets that were lost in time. Fun little bit of etymological history: chemistry comes from alchemy which is a translation from an arabic phrase to mean 'from Egypt'. https://www.etymonline.com/word/alchemy https://www.etymonline.com/word/alchemy
tomaszkiewicz 6y ago
There's a interesting movie (available on YT) - The Revelation of the Pyramids from 2010. Discussing technical feats of the Great Pyramid of Giza, and speculates about hidden knowledge encoded in the dimensions / location of these structures. Goes even further suggesting it is a warning of recurrent catastrophe. But biggest impression made on me info ( around 1hour:15minutes mark) that plenty of the important ancient structures around the globe are located on circle roughly 100KM wide and Equator length and different geometrical relations between these points.

88 points by samizdis 6y ago

jjoe 6y ago

It's interesting that 400 years later, especially in this day and age of freedoms and lesser stigmatization, we still have this dissonance. People are unwilling to listen to their inner instincts that maybe not everything we believe in must be a published paper in a reputable journal.

jonnytran 6y ago
I was also just about to post about how there's still a ton of stigma around alternative theories of history. In particular, the ones about how the pyramids were built by ancient civilizations. The end result is that it's tough to find the real work being done because most credible people are driven underground. We're left with the conspiracy theorists.
- andi999 6y ago
  Here is my bone with these 'alternative' theories, a lot contain a lot of snake oil (of course I didnt look at much) and are disingenious. Let me give you an example. (I think it was a video by Däniken). He takes a ancient egyptian metal-vessel (probaly copper amphore) and then says:'the amazing thing is, if you just add a little acid and a wire to this amazing device it will act like a battery. So did the egyptians have electricity?' Or something like that. Of course that will happen, and it will happen to any metal cup, it does not show anything about having the knowledge about electricity of a society, but people who do not know much physics will then lead astray to 'so how do you explain this'. If they would have found the wire (of a different metal) inside the jar, in some device... ok... but this is like finding a rock of uranium and saying:'they could have made nuclear power plants from this'. When I saw they had to go this low, I was pretty sure they have nothing.
  - Radim 6y ago
    Your post is seriously meta: To demonstrate how snake-oil people leap to conclusions and paint with a broad brush based on flimsy evidence… …you leap to conclusions and paint with a broad brush based on anecdata. > When I saw they had to go this low, I was pretty sure they have nothing.
    - andi999 6y ago
      Well, I remember it was one of the 'big-guys' of this alternative theories. So I believe if 'they' had something he would have used it. But please go ahead, point me to the best piece of evidence (no goal-post shifting later, please)
      - txmachinery 6y ago
        Possibly relevant (Baghdad Battery): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baghdad_Battery https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baghdad_Battery
        rimiform 6y ago
        >"In March 2012, Professor Elizabeth Stone of Stony Brook University, an expert on Iraqi archaeology, returning from the first archaeological expedition in Iraq after 20 years, stated that she does not know a single archaeologist who believed that these were batteries." Sounds great!
      - Radim 6y ago
        OK. What are you goal posts though? :) Here's my (hopefully charitable) reading of your argument: 1. Alternative theories of history are disingenious (sic) snake oil, because they're based on weak circumstantial evidence. They use flawed reasoning to support strawman interpretations of the data. 2. To support this theory, you mention a video you saw (well, maybe saw…) of one guy X (Däniken) claiming something about Y (vessel batteries?). Don't you find the irony delicious? All theories were "alternative" at some point. Some stood the test of time and evidence; some didn't (Gobekli Tepe embarrassed quite a few "mainstream" scientists in its time); some are in the academic weighing right now (the Younger Dryas Impact Hypothesis).
- jan_Inkepa 6y ago
  [ I guess you mean "high technology" ancient civilisations? ] The problem is that wrong/inadequate/inferior theories will tend to be neglected, professionals will be stay clear of them, and "if only we had better theorists" could be a rallying call in those cases as well. "If only there wasn't such a bias against phlogistonism we'd have higher-quality phlogiston research." Weirdly enough I don't think I've heard this argument much in the crackpot science world, where I have more experience, but it is not uncommon for people to imprint on obsolete theories that modern working scientists can't really discuss because they don't know them in detail or maybe even in broad strokes (epicycles or the like). I'm happy to leave it to the professionals. History is a quite high-evidence high-rigour domain, with many converging sources that confirm earlier theories (genetics/linguistics/carbon dating/etc.).
rimiform 6y ago
I couldn't disagree more. The democratisation of (the idea of) science had a strong role to play in the proliferation of conspiracy theories and anti-science sentiment in general. I think many people are doing exactly what you say and listening to their instincts. That's a negative development, not a positive one.

abellerose 6y ago

Eternal recurrence is a concept supposedly found in ancient Egypt and where one can understand all the causes & effects that made our life can theoretically repeat for infinity. The bible story about Adam & Eve is somewhat significant to highlight the cause of eating the forbidden fruit resulting in the effect of original sin but fails to highlight God being the cause for such a forbidden fruit existing in the first place; or one could even argue God being the cause for giving them free will. Anyway from the foregoing, it makes sense scientists can benefit from looking at historical events, stories, and traditions for improving perception. I don't know why people get shamed or embarrassed about reading things like magic or alchemy as an example. Science likely benefits from creativity and what's more creative than imagination or unrealistic topics. Another source related to the topic: https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/newtons-temple-596350 https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/newtons-temple-596350 "My Dear Yahuda, Newton’s writings on biblical subjects seem to me especially interesting because they provide deep insight into the characteristic intellectual features and working methods of this important man. The divine origin of the Bible is for Newton absolutely certain, a conviction that stands in curious contrast to the critical skepticism that characterizes his attitude toward the churches. From this confidence stems the firm conviction that the seemingly obscure parts of the Bible must contain important revelations, to illuminate which one need only decipher its symbolic language. Newton seeks this decipherment, or interpretation, by means of his sharp systematic thinking grounded on the careful use of all the sources at his disposal. While the formative development of Newton’s lasting physics works must remain shrouded in darkness, because Newton apparently destroyed his preparatory works, we do have in this domain of his works on the Bible drafts and their repeated modification; these mostly unpublished writings therefore allow a highly interesting insight into the mental workshop of this unique thinker. - Einstein. September 1940, Saranac Lake P.S. I think that it is wonderful that the writings will all be kept together and made available for research.”

sam_goody 6y ago

While I don't believe the pyramids can tell about the apocalypse or the Bible, the math of the pyramids is more complex than one would think. Most famously, the great pyramid has eight sides (not four) [1] and it has at least two massive hidden chambers that no-one can figure out [2]. Some of the Egyptian pyramids had stereograms inside, they have fantastic mazes of pathways and traps. Building these things (like the inner angle of the great pyramid) must have been quite a feat, the logic for some of these decisions still escape us, and the style of building is not consistent from one pyramid to the next. (I haven't verified that these sites are good, just took the first links on DDG, but the facts were widely reported and are easy to verify.) [1]: https://curiosmos.com/were-all-3-ancient-giza-pyramids-built-with-8-and-not-4-sides/ https://curiosmos.com/were-all-3-ancient-giza-pyramids-built... [2]: https://www.dailygrail.com/2019/11/mysterious-hidden-chamber-in-great-pyramid-confirmed-by-new-scans/ https://www.dailygrail.com/2019/11/mysterious-hidden-chamber...

throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
> Some of the Egyptian pyramids had stereograms inside, cite? > they have fantastic mazes of pathways and traps. And they have guys in a cowboy hat with a whip collecting relics too. Probably. What traps? (edit: and mazes?)

bmitc 6y ago

Newton was a nut, in nearly every positive and negative, sense of the word. I highly recommend James Gleick's Isaac Newton: https://www.amazon.com/Isaac-Newton-James-Gleick/dp/1400032954 https://www.amazon.com/Isaac-Newton-James-Gleick/dp/14000329... It is an engrossing and not long read on Newton. It covers a fair amount of his heretical thoughts and feuds with people and paints a rather complete picture of the man. It's basically common knowledge now, but Newton's writings on alchemy and religion are in vast excess of his writings on physics and mathematics. It seems that intriguing questions that he couldn't find answers for almost made him rabid, in a sense.

DEADBEEFC0FFEE 6y ago
That's a good book.
- selimthegrim 6y ago
  If you liked that one you’ll love Westfall’s Never At Rest
DoingIsLearning 6y ago
I remember reading somewhere that many of the intelectuals of the time (including Newton) would likely have suffered some degree of mercury poisoning (from alchemy related experiments). This could well explain the paranoia and odd behaviour later in life.
- varvar 6y ago
  Alchemy means "the process of transmutation by which to fuse or reunite with the divine or original form" which in reality doesn't deal with concrete materials, but it is about something akin to psychological transformation. Practitioners of alchemy would uphold deceptive ideas about it, in order to protect themselves. I highly doubt that Newton was as silly and foolish as misunderstanding what alchemy is fundamentally about. However supposedly he was found to have mercury in his hair upon being found dead, which certainly discredits the occult and esoteric part of his studies. The public image of Newton is heavily shaped by the British Government, the whole thing about the Enlightement scientist that society is supposed to emulate and so on. It's quite the rabbit hole to investigate.

osullivj 6y ago

Neal Stephenson's System of the World trilogy has a lot to say on Newton's alchemical investigations.

DEADBEEFC0FFEE 6y ago
I really ought to finish the last book.
prepend 6y ago
I remember it captured Newton’s nuttiness and strong interest in experiment and knowledge when Stephenson had a scene where Newton used knitting needles inserted under his own eyeballs to distort the shape of his eyeball and describe what he saw.

ducktective 6y ago

How in the hell it took this long for Newton's "unpublished" notes to be unveiled? I mean the guy was one of the most famous scientist/mathematician of all time. I can justify the reluctance out of religious reasons(?) in 1600 or up until like 1800, but after that, after he has been long dead, what excuse could possibly be to not publish ALL of his works? Is it because someone just bought them all and kept it for himself? Any history expert want to chime in?

acqq 6y ago
From the site which is selling it: https://www.sothebys.com/en/buy/auction/2020/english-literature-history-science-childrens-books-and-illustrations/newton-autograph-mansucript-notes-on-the-great https://www.sothebys.com/en/buy/auction/2020/english-literat... Newton "left behind vast manuscript writings on biblical exegesis and other theological subjects, presumably in the hope that his secret knowledge would reach a select and receptive readership in future generations. The true range of Newton's writings has only become apparent remarkably recently. Such was Newton's reputation as the exemplar of the Enlightenment scientist that for generations there was little willingness to publish material that might seem to undermine that status. It was only with the sale of Newton's papers by the Earl of Portsmouth in these rooms in 1936 that the scale of his interest in alchemy, in particular, became generally recognised, and it is even more recently that the extent of his theological writing has been acknowledged." The pages now being on sale "are likely to have been part of a larger lot sold in the 1936 auction of the Newton papers, but they cannot be positively identified in the sale catalogue." You can browse a lot (or all?) of papers which were bought then and ended in the National Library of Israel: https://web.nli.org.il/sites/NLI/English/collections/Humanities/newton/Pages/default.aspx https://web.nli.org.il/sites/NLI/English/collections/Humanit... "The manuscripts found at the National Library are from the collection of Abraham Shalom Yehuda (1877-1951), an expert in Middle Eastern affairs. Professor Yehuda purchased the manuscripts at a public auction at Sotheby’s of London in 1936. Other manuscripts in the collection, dealing mostly with the topic of alchemy, were purchased by the well-known economist, John Maynard Keynes, and are located at King’s College in Cambridge University." Also, Isaac Newton’s Works, University of Oxford, (mostly or all?) donated by Keynes, should be somewhere here, among the works from other collections: http://www.newtonproject.ox.ac.uk/texts/newtons-works/all http://www.newtonproject.ox.ac.uk/texts/newtons-works/all and the background behind that: https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsnr.1952.0006 https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsnr.1952.000... In "1872" "the purely scientific papers were generously given to the University of Cambridge." (Note: Newton studied there). "The event which stimulated Keynes to his greatest effort in bookcollecting was the dispersal at Sotheby’s on 13 and 14 July 1936 of the Newton papers of Viscount Lymington, to whom they had descended from Catherine Conduitt, Viscountess Lymington, Newton’s great-niece. The relentless pressure of death-duties made it necessary to sell this great collection."

llimos 6y ago

I read a fascinating article about Newton's studies in theology[1], particularly Jewish sources and the Jewish Temple. It's based on papers currently in Israel's National Archives[2]. He very much used the same scientific techniques for all his studies, whatever the topic. The most fascinating thing is that, based on these methods, he predicted the return of the Jews to the ancient Land of Israel starting in the 1880's (correct), and that a great misfortune would befall them in the 1940's (also correct). I do not know how many things he got wrong, or if these were just coincidences. But the article was an interesting read nonetheless. [1] https://iyun.org.il/maremakom/newtons-theology/ https://iyun.org.il/maremakom/newtons-theology/ In Hebrew, and unfortunately Google translates it very badly for some reason [2] https://web.nli.org.il/sites/NLI/English/collections/Humanities/newton/Pages/list.aspx https://web.nli.org.il/sites/NLI/English/collections/Humanit...

jakeva 6y ago
That was a fascinating read, but without links to the original I have to remain a little bit skeptical. I tried to access the documents in your second link hoping I could search for myself, but it looks like I'm locked out.
- acqq 6y ago
  The claim is that Newton figured out the dates from the Book of Daniel. The book of his about his conclusions was published in 1733 (he died in 1727) and is available in different formats: Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Observations-Upon-Prophecies-Daniel-Apocalypse/dp/1603864024 https://www.amazon.com/Observations-Upon-Prophecies-Daniel-A... 1733 original: https://archive.org/details/observationsupon1733newt https://archive.org/details/observationsupon1733newt Some PDF version: http://www.historicism.com/Newton/newton.pdf http://www.historicism.com/Newton/newton.pdf One author (Matania Z. Kochavi) writes that it can be seen that Newton wrote that believing he was personally chosen to understand the hidden code in the Bible, and when and how there will be the Second Coming of Christ, and "end of times" based on such logic like "flowing water represented a friendly encounter, whereas a flood symbolized war; similarly, a single boat sailing at sea was an image of friendship, whereas a flotilla represented a battle." or "three sets of symbols" "appeared in various places throughout the text. One set was composed of metals: gold, silver, copper, and iron. The second set used symbols from the animal kingdom: the lion, bear, leopard, and the "Fourth Beast." The third set made use of the ram and the goat."

DevX101 6y ago

Newton often gets derided for his unfruitful efforts at unlocking alchemy, but there's something admirable there. He was willing to take on bold, grand ideas that were not obviously wrong. I'd even venture to say that in the 17th century, the concept of alchemy sounds much more reasonable than the idea that there is an 'invisible' force of attraction between everything in the universe. A lot of this derision for Newton's alchemy comes from hindsight knowledge of the hundreds of years of chemistry knowledge we've since accumulated. And in the end, he wasn't really wrong in principle about whether alchemy is possible. He was just off on the scale of energy required.

acqq 6y ago
Yes, modern chemistry starts with Lavoisier's "Traité Élémentaire de Chimie" (1789) and development of chemistry as a science took a lot of time: only in 20th century the existence of atoms was finally proven. Up to then there were still some scientists who denied the existence of atoms, one of the last of the famous ones: Ernst Mach: "he famously declared, after an 1897 lecture by Ludwig Boltzmann at the Imperial Academy of Science in Vienna: "I don't believe that atoms exist!"" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Mach https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Mach Newton died in 1727. He followed however not only unscientific paths in alchemy, but also in his analysis of the ancient texts. Both reflect the time he lived and his own beliefs, which influenced these endeavors. With hindsight, we know that these investigations didn't advance humanity's knowledge, but are interesting for history. It can be that he even discovered something scientifically interesting while doing alchemy, but he had his reasons to try to hide that work and apparently some of these papers never survived to this day. And what survived wasn't public until 20th century, contrary to the principles of science.
- fsloth 6y ago
  Yes, the history of the atomic model where it became indisputable is _quite_ recent. And before this the structure of matter was more or less a disputable mystery. The atomic model became undisputable after Jean Perrin's experiments in 1908 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Baptiste_Perrin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Baptiste_Perrin And only after being prompted by the investigations of Einstein published in 1905 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9Cber_die_von_der_molekularkinetischen_Theorie_der_W%C3%A4rme_geforderte_Bewegung_von_in_ruhenden_Fl%C3%BCssigkeiten_suspendierten_Teilchen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9Cber_die_von_der_molekula... The size of this mystery gets forgotten in modern discussion - but getting to the bottom on how the world is built was among the biggest triumphs of modern world. And the people who lived before the 20th century should not be belittled for lacking this knowledge.

known 6y ago

https://archive.vn/XsM8A https://archive.vn/XsM8A

dmarchand90 6y ago

Interesting how at this point in history it was thought that the Egyptians knew alchemical secrets that were lost in time. Fun little bit of etymological history: chemistry comes from alchemy which is a translation from an arabic phrase to mean 'from Egypt'. https://www.etymonline.com/word/alchemy https://www.etymonline.com/word/alchemy

tomaszkiewicz 6y ago

There's a interesting movie (available on YT) - The Revelation of the Pyramids from 2010. Discussing technical feats of the Great Pyramid of Giza, and speculates about hidden knowledge encoded in the dimensions / location of these structures. Goes even further suggesting it is a warning of recurrent catastrophe. But biggest impression made on me info ( around 1hour:15minutes mark) that plenty of the important ancient structures around the globe are located on circle roughly 100KM wide and Equator length and different geometrical relations between these points.