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> and people are gathering with friends and relatives inside private homes more frequently than before We didn't learn our lesson from the war on drugs. When y

by natchy 6y ago

> and people are gathering with friends and relatives inside private homes more frequently than before We didn't learn our lesson from the war on drugs. When you make something completely off limits people will find a way to engage, but without any standards. Meeting people in secret (mask free) is the new drugs.

gnicholas 6y ago
Also, many sheriffs have said they will not enforce Newsom's order: https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2020/12/05/stay-at-home-order-sheriff-enforcement/ https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2020/12/05/stay-at-home-orde...
- twblalock 6y ago
  This probably reveals several things: 1. Newsom's authority is not respected by law enforcement 2. Law enforcement thinks the curfew is not necessary 3. Law enforcement doesn't enjoy a governor springing new rules on them without advance notice, which is the result of his making things up as he goes along This is little league stuff. It's not the way a state in a first-world country should be operating.
  - theevilsharpie 6y ago
    Under the assumption that Gavin Newsom and his administration probably aren't completely stupid, we can come up with a more charitable (and likely realistic) revelations: 1. County sheriffs only have direct jurisdiction over unincorporated areas, which are typically rural and are unlikely to be a significant source of spread. 2. These orders are likely intended to give local governments stronger authority to shut down gatherings, should they choose to use it. 3. Even if local authorities refuse to enforce the orders, there are no explicitly COVID-19 liability protections for businesses that I'm aware of. If an outbreak occurs that can be traced back to a business that was operating against regulations, that in and of itself would make the business operators jointly (if not entirely) liable, and would give insurance companies a defensible reason for not paying out claims.
    - gnicholas 6y ago
      > County sheriffs only have direct jurisdiction over unincorporated areas, which are typically rural and are unlikely to be a significant source of spread. The counties discussed in the linked article are Orange County, Riverside, and other similar counties. These are not "the boonies".
      - theevilsharpie 6y ago
        The populated parts of those counties will be their own cities, which the county sheriffs have limited jurisdiction over. These cities will either have their own police departments, or they'll contract with the county sheriff to enforce the laws and regulations (in which case the decision on whether or not to enforce curfew will be the city's, not the sheriff's).
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
        gnicholas 6y ago
        This is simply not true. For example, I live in unincorporated San Mateo County. By your hypothesis, I live in an area that is not heavily populated. But it's a regular suburban neighborhood that is 3 miles from downtown Palo Alto and downtown Menlo Park. I have lived in both NorCal and SoCal, and this is common in both areas. Where do you live, and what makes you so certain that unincorporated areas in California are not populated? Separately, do you really think that if the OC Sheriff says "we are not enforcing Newsom's rules" that the deputies are going to enforce those rules in cities within their patrol areas? If a Sheriff has decided not to enforce a law in his jurisdiction, why would he direct his deputies to enforce that same law in other parts of his patrol area?
        theevilsharpie 6y ago
        > Where do you live, and what makes you so certain that unincorporated areas in California are not populated? I live in Southern California, one of the areas of currently under a state mandated stay-at-home order. And I never said unincorporated areas where unpopulated, I said they were rural, which implies that they're sparsely populated. This is partly by definition (a city would either be part of an urban center, or its own urban center), and partly because populations that are dense enough tend to form cities. And to be clear, when I refer to "city", I'm referring to incorporated cities, not just major cities. > Separately, do you really think that if the OC Sheriff says "we are not enforcing Newsom's rules" that the deputies are going to enforce those rules in cities within their patrol areas? If a Sheriff has decided not to enforce a law in his jurisdiction, why would he direct his deputies to enforce that same law in other parts of his patrol area? Yes. Again, Sheriffs only have direct jurisdiction over unincorporated areas of the county. Cities are their own jurisdiction. The cities may contract with the Sheriff for policing, but the deputies would be following the direction of the city government in that case. If the city directs their police to enforce a stay-at-home order (be it the city's own police or Sheriff deputies policing on behalf of the city), the police would have no legal basis to refuse. They may not be able to practically enforce such an order, but that's a different issue.

by natchy 6y ago

gnicholas 6y ago

Also, many sheriffs have said they will not enforce Newsom's order: https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2020/12/05/stay-at-home-order-sheriff-enforcement/ https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2020/12/05/stay-at-home-orde...

twblalock 6y ago
This probably reveals several things: 1. Newsom's authority is not respected by law enforcement 2. Law enforcement thinks the curfew is not necessary 3. Law enforcement doesn't enjoy a governor springing new rules on them without advance notice, which is the result of his making things up as he goes along This is little league stuff. It's not the way a state in a first-world country should be operating.
- theevilsharpie 6y ago
  Under the assumption that Gavin Newsom and his administration probably aren't completely stupid, we can come up with a more charitable (and likely realistic) revelations: 1. County sheriffs only have direct jurisdiction over unincorporated areas, which are typically rural and are unlikely to be a significant source of spread. 2. These orders are likely intended to give local governments stronger authority to shut down gatherings, should they choose to use it. 3. Even if local authorities refuse to enforce the orders, there are no explicitly COVID-19 liability protections for businesses that I'm aware of. If an outbreak occurs that can be traced back to a business that was operating against regulations, that in and of itself would make the business operators jointly (if not entirely) liable, and would give insurance companies a defensible reason for not paying out claims.
  - gnicholas 6y ago
    > County sheriffs only have direct jurisdiction over unincorporated areas, which are typically rural and are unlikely to be a significant source of spread. The counties discussed in the linked article are Orange County, Riverside, and other similar counties. These are not "the boonies".
    - theevilsharpie 6y ago
      The populated parts of those counties will be their own cities, which the county sheriffs have limited jurisdiction over. These cities will either have their own police departments, or they'll contract with the county sheriff to enforce the laws and regulations (in which case the decision on whether or not to enforce curfew will be the city's, not the sheriff's).
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - gnicholas 6y ago
        This is simply not true. For example, I live in unincorporated San Mateo County. By your hypothesis, I live in an area that is not heavily populated. But it's a regular suburban neighborhood that is 3 miles from downtown Palo Alto and downtown Menlo Park. I have lived in both NorCal and SoCal, and this is common in both areas. Where do you live, and what makes you so certain that unincorporated areas in California are not populated? Separately, do you really think that if the OC Sheriff says "we are not enforcing Newsom's rules" that the deputies are going to enforce those rules in cities within their patrol areas? If a Sheriff has decided not to enforce a law in his jurisdiction, why would he direct his deputies to enforce that same law in other parts of his patrol area?
        theevilsharpie 6y ago
        > Where do you live, and what makes you so certain that unincorporated areas in California are not populated? I live in Southern California, one of the areas of currently under a state mandated stay-at-home order. And I never said unincorporated areas where unpopulated, I said they were rural, which implies that they're sparsely populated. This is partly by definition (a city would either be part of an urban center, or its own urban center), and partly because populations that are dense enough tend to form cities. And to be clear, when I refer to "city", I'm referring to incorporated cities, not just major cities. > Separately, do you really think that if the OC Sheriff says "we are not enforcing Newsom's rules" that the deputies are going to enforce those rules in cities within their patrol areas? If a Sheriff has decided not to enforce a law in his jurisdiction, why would he direct his deputies to enforce that same law in other parts of his patrol area? Yes. Again, Sheriffs only have direct jurisdiction over unincorporated areas of the county. Cities are their own jurisdiction. The cities may contract with the Sheriff for policing, but the deputies would be following the direction of the city government in that case. If the city directs their police to enforce a stay-at-home order (be it the city's own police or Sheriff deputies policing on behalf of the city), the police would have no legal basis to refuse. They may not be able to practically enforce such an order, but that's a different issue.