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Money is a self-organizing system of resource management. Bitcoin is better money, because it allows for more pure self-organization, as a result of its money

by beaner 6y ago

Money is a self-organizing system of resource management. Bitcoin is better money, because it allows for more pure self-organization, as a result of its money supply being predetermined by hard-coded algorithm, rather than by fiat decree. This single benefit far outweighs the mentioned negatives. It has the potential to completely eliminate the boom/bust cycle, eliminate currency manipulation that facilitates international trade imbalances, and free hyperinflated jurisdictions from that aspect of their poverty. Many think these expectations are unreal, and that's fine. I'll see you when we get there.

sesuximo 6y ago
I don’t think any of these things come close to paying for the energy cost Bitcoin used circa 2018 (I haven’t looked recently — has it decreased?). And that cost would skyrocket if everyone used it day to day
- beaner 6y ago
  I have commented on this elsewhere but because energy is not just a cost for bitcoin mining but essentially the only cost outside initial capital investment, Bitcoin's POW will in the long-term drive all mining to off-grid self-power by renewables.
SrslyJosh 6y ago
> Bitcoin is better money, because it allows for more pure self-organization, as a result of its money supply being predetermined by hard-coded algorithm, rather than by fiat decree. Because bitcoin requires substantial inputs (hardware, energy), if it actually has legs, it will end up being controlled by whoever controls the most capital. That's not self-organization, that's just replicating the same broken economic system we have right now, but (ironically) with much lower efficiency. > It has the potential to completely eliminate the boom/bust cycle Citation needed. =) > eliminate currency manipulation "A single anonymous market manipulator caused bitcoin to top $20,000 two years ago, study shows" https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/04/study-single-anonymous-market-manipulator-pushed-bitcoin-to-20000.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/04/study-single-anonymous-marke... > free hyperinflated jurisdictions from that aspect of their poverty. I'm sure that'll work great for folks who can afford to buy (or would be payed in increments of) approximately 0.0005 BTC at a time. What are transaction fees these days, anyway? =)
- beaner 6y ago
  > Because bitcoin requires substatial inputs... it will end up being controlled by whoever controls the most capital Huh? Whoever has the most capital has the most capital? I don't get it. > Citation needed The boom/bust cycle is caused by what we declare to be the solution: active management and printing of the money supply as desired to achieve short-term economic or political goals. > an anonymous market manipulator caused bitcoin to top $20k I was speaking about the money supply, not the price. Dunno if you meant to misinterpret or not. But regardless, even that criticism isn't really doable at the scale Bitcoin will achieve. > I'm sure that'll work... I don't consider this to be a real criticism. I don't consider any scaling criticism to be valid, because they all come from the perspective of "Bitcoin hasn't scaled already, therefore it will never scale." 80% of software engineering is scaling. It's what we do, it's what's being done. It's a lazy argument. For it to be interesting, you have to tell me why Bitcoin can't scale, ever, in principle.
  - bawolff 6y ago
    > The boom/bust cycle is caused by what we declare to be the solution: active management and printing of the money supply as desired to achieve short-term economic or political goals. That seems like quite an extraordinary claim without much evidence.
    - jerrymiller 6y ago
      > extraordinary claim without much evidence "Much evidence", smh. How about the work that won the Nobel prize on this exact topic? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_business_cycle_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_business_cycle_theory It shows exactly how the boom/bust cycle is caused by the active management of money.

by beaner 6y ago

sesuximo 6y ago

I don’t think any of these things come close to paying for the energy cost Bitcoin used circa 2018 (I haven’t looked recently — has it decreased?). And that cost would skyrocket if everyone used it day to day

beaner 6y ago
I have commented on this elsewhere but because energy is not just a cost for bitcoin mining but essentially the only cost outside initial capital investment, Bitcoin's POW will in the long-term drive all mining to off-grid self-power by renewables.

SrslyJosh 6y ago

> Bitcoin is better money, because it allows for more pure self-organization, as a result of its money supply being predetermined by hard-coded algorithm, rather than by fiat decree. Because bitcoin requires substantial inputs (hardware, energy), if it actually has legs, it will end up being controlled by whoever controls the most capital. That's not self-organization, that's just replicating the same broken economic system we have right now, but (ironically) with much lower efficiency. > It has the potential to completely eliminate the boom/bust cycle Citation needed. =) > eliminate currency manipulation "A single anonymous market manipulator caused bitcoin to top $20,000 two years ago, study shows" https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/04/study-single-anonymous-market-manipulator-pushed-bitcoin-to-20000.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/04/study-single-anonymous-marke... > free hyperinflated jurisdictions from that aspect of their poverty. I'm sure that'll work great for folks who can afford to buy (or would be payed in increments of) approximately 0.0005 BTC at a time. What are transaction fees these days, anyway? =)

beaner 6y ago
> Because bitcoin requires substatial inputs... it will end up being controlled by whoever controls the most capital Huh? Whoever has the most capital has the most capital? I don't get it. > Citation needed The boom/bust cycle is caused by what we declare to be the solution: active management and printing of the money supply as desired to achieve short-term economic or political goals. > an anonymous market manipulator caused bitcoin to top $20k I was speaking about the money supply, not the price. Dunno if you meant to misinterpret or not. But regardless, even that criticism isn't really doable at the scale Bitcoin will achieve. > I'm sure that'll work... I don't consider this to be a real criticism. I don't consider any scaling criticism to be valid, because they all come from the perspective of "Bitcoin hasn't scaled already, therefore it will never scale." 80% of software engineering is scaling. It's what we do, it's what's being done. It's a lazy argument. For it to be interesting, you have to tell me why Bitcoin can't scale, ever, in principle.
- bawolff 6y ago
  > The boom/bust cycle is caused by what we declare to be the solution: active management and printing of the money supply as desired to achieve short-term economic or political goals. That seems like quite an extraordinary claim without much evidence.
  - jerrymiller 6y ago
    > extraordinary claim without much evidence "Much evidence", smh. How about the work that won the Nobel prize on this exact topic? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_business_cycle_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_business_cycle_theory It shows exactly how the boom/bust cycle is caused by the active management of money.