11 ms·

CA Restaurant Owner In Tears Over Outdoor Dining Ban

32 points by undefined1 6y ago

JMTQp8lwXL 6y ago
> My Roomate works on set for a network. He/everyone he works with are required to get rapid tested before they step on the set every single day. Anyone he comes in contact with on set has passed the same rapid test. > I bartend. Im constantly surrounded by people who deem dining out for pleasure to be a smart choice during a pandemic. This group consists roughly of 20% responsible people who take outdoor dining rules seriously, 40% Covid truthers who take a weird pride in breaking the rules, and 40% people in their 20s/30s who think the rules don’t apply to them because they are invincible. And that’s before you even add the effects of alcohol to the equation. > Neither me or anyone I work with was ever provided with a Covid test by management or even asked by management to go get independently tested. > One of these things is not like the other. I understand this bar owner’s frustrations but “extremely controlled production sets are allowed to be open/eat food so why aren’t bars open” isn’t exactly sound logic. https://www.reddit.com/r/LosAngeles/comments/k6y5f5/bar_owner_in_los_angeles_ca_is_livid_to_see_that/genp97b https://www.reddit.com/r/LosAngeles/comments/k6y5f5/bar_owne...
- nickthemagicman 6y ago
  """I get it but leaning on rapid tests is pretty much a step or two above tempature checks. It doesn't catch many positives. Every White House super spreader event occurred with rapid testing in place. Then the city went on a rampage telling families last week they could not rely on the far greater and accurate PCR TESTING + isolation to see each other. That it is where it all falls apart for me I do have sympathy for officials BUT you either fully lock down or you don't. This middle ground is a mess""" https://www.reddit.com/r/LosAngeles/comments/k6y5f5/comment/genyjth https://www.reddit.com/r/LosAngeles/comments/k6y5f5/comment/...
  - thrwaway2day 6y ago
    It also isn't a good look when the restrictions happen to fall on apparent political lines, even if it isn't intentional. Hollywood productions, Amazon warehouses, protests in line with democratic party values, abortion clinics and pot shops = D leaning voters = Allowed, if not encouraged Small businesses, churches, protests of lockdown measures, gun ranges, Musk and Tesla = R leaning voters = Forbidden, shun them, they are going to kill grandma Add to that the many of the people advocating for these policies fail to follow them themselves (Nancy Pelosi, Gavin Newsom, London Breed, Dianne Feinstein just to name a few) and you can see how many especially those who are losing their livelihoods see this as a attack and are frustrated. The optics are extremely bad, though that might be the point.
    - nickthemagicman 6y ago
      Whats it going to take for people to freak out and revolt, it's time. It's clearly extremely bad.
      - mindslight 6y ago
        It's going to take the people not getting distracted by red herrings. So much outrage has been channeled into destructive memes like denying that Covid is a problem and rebelling against simple measures to stop the spread. The real problem is the unsustainable structure of the economy. I don't think this woman is being driven to tears because she really wants to be running her restaurant right now, but rather because she's going to lose it completely when she falls off the debt treadmill. Instead of small businesses and individuals getting recurring stimulus and suspended rent/mortgages/taxes, we got peanuts. Meanwhile trillions of dollars were given to Wall St to make sure the magic Line keeps going up. That was a massive theft from the public to the plutocrats. But until the outrage stops getting divided and derailed by distractions, I'm afraid it will only continue.
        thrwaway2day 6y ago
        > So much outrage has been channeled into destructive memes like denying that Covid is a problem and rebelling against simple measures to stop the spread. Here's the problem, it has been a do as I say not as I do attitude from the leadership in this country and even people who were supposed to remain non-political made moves that were suspect. For example early on when Fauci was asked if we should limit the BLM protests, he refused to make a recommendation. Now keep in mind during that same hearing he made recommendations about all kinds of other things from restaurants to sporting events. If you agree with him it's easy to overlook that, however take a moment and walk a bit in someone elses shoes, someone who has spent the past decade working to build a business or trying to support a family and was impacted by those measures and if you are honest you'll admit that it would probably piss you off to see that. Leaders need to understand that people react on a emotional level to things and if you are asking for someone to make great personal sacrifices you need to be above reproach when making those requests. To illustrate it from the other side there is a new anti-vax movement that popped up among progressives due to the fact that these new covid vaccines are being produced under a Trump presidency. When I read about the concerns they tend to have more to due with Trumps personality than the science. Again if Trump conducted himself in a more socially acceptable way and spent more time considering how his words and choices appeared to others, I suspect this new vaccine would encounter less resistance. In the scheme of history much of the suffering caused by covid can be placed squarely on a lack of leadership. It has been a long time since the United States has had a threat like this to deal with and we have learned that our leadership is woefully unprepared. If we were smart they wouldn't be our leadership for much longer.
  - JMTQp8lwXL 6y ago
    The situation is evolving rapidly with regards to rapid testing. The White House super-spreader event was in September. Since then, new methods have been rolled out: https://health.ucdavis.edu/health-news/newsroom/new-cutting-edge-rapid-test-detects-both-covid-19-and-flu/2020/11 https://health.ucdavis.edu/health-news/newsroom/new-cutting-...
    - nickthemagicman 6y ago
      It's still unfair to selectively allow certain non-essential businesses to operate and ban others.
- thedrbrian 6y ago
  Page 11. 35-39 year olds 99.91% survival rate. 65-69 year olds 98.61% survival rate. https://spiral.imperial.ac.uk:8443/bitstream/10044/1/83545/8/2020-10-29-COVID19-Report-34.pdf https://spiral.imperial.ac.uk:8443/bitstream/10044/1/83545/8...
  - kaba0 6y ago
    How many require hospitalization? Because that number will easily overflow the available healthcare services increasing death of all other conditions.. It’s not that hard to understand
  - jfengel 6y ago
    "99.91%" survival rate means "1 in a thousand chance of dying". Those aren't odds people ordinarily enjoy taking. Applied to the entire United States, it would still be 300,000 dead -- about the number of American dead in World War II. Those 9s look great until you realize we're talking about dying. (And that's before we take into account the possibility of long-term disability.) "Low odds" times "Maximally bad outcome" means "take significant efforts to avoid". Like maybe minor lifestyle changes, such as not going out to restaurants. Even if that's bad for restaurant owners because, ya know, death.
nickthemagicman 6y ago
There's only been around 20,000 Covid deaths this year in the under 55 age group this year. The under 55 age group is 80% of the population. That's less than car accidents. So this is a disease that is very low risk for 80% of the American population. They have a right to be upset. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/ https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/
- warricksothr 6y ago
  That’s a nice narrative, but for every one of those that died from C19 there are many that didn’t. Unlike a car accident, those that survived do contribute to the spread of the virus and expose people who are at higher risk of a far more fatal outcome. Additionally every person that contracts this has a chance of needing supplemental oxygen and an intensive care bed. These are already in short supply and the people to manage these intensive care facilities aren’t an infinite resource. It is just reckless to expose more people to this virus when we have vaccines on the way to inoculate the highest risk communities. While people certainly have a right to be upset, they don’t have a right to willfully endanger others.
  - nickthemagicman 6y ago
    The thing is...if the vulnerable 20% of the population can't stay in quarantine... but 80% of the population is low risk...this is not societies problem anymore.. this is that 20%'s problem.
    - dTal 6y ago
      What's the upper limit on the percentage of people you're happy to throw under the bus? Are problems only problems if they affect 51% or more of the population?
      - nickthemagicman 6y ago
        You've got it wrong. The people being thrown under the bus are the people being sent into poverty because 20% of the population can't seem to stay in quarantine. Would you put 100 million people into poverty to save 1 life of a person who wants to go to Starbucks to get a Peppermint Mocha?
kderbyma 6y ago
Should be. lockdowns should be total or none. Masks are stupid and honestly have so little evidence supporting them it's pathetic, and the lockdowns have two champion countries and everyone else is statistically insignificant when you compare with their annual expected flu response curves
- warricksothr 6y ago
  Plenty of evidence for the effectiveness of masks exists. The WHO published their guidelines on mask use with more than 16 cited studies from across the world[1]. Just because you feel like masks are stupid does not mean you should go spreading heresay without backing up your claims. 1. https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/advice-on-the-use-of-masks-in-the-community-during-home-care-and-in-healthcare-settings-in-the-context-of-the-novel-coronavirus-(2019-ncov)-outbreak https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/advice-on-the-use-of...
bsder 6y ago
Then perhaps she needs to spend some time screaming at the idiots who won't take precautions seriously. We didn't have to be here. Covid keeps spreading because enough people simply won't take the commonsense actions. Put a damn mask on--especially when visiting people.

32 points by undefined1 6y ago

> My Roomate works on set for a network. He/everyone he works with are required to get rapid tested before they step on the set every single day. Anyone he comes in contact with on set has passed the same rapid test. > I bartend. Im constantly surrounded by people who deem dining out for pleasure to be a smart choice during a pandemic. This group consists roughly of 20% responsible people who take outdoor dining rules seriously, 40% Covid truthers who take a weird pride in breaking the rules, and 40% people in their 20s/30s who think the rules don’t apply to them because they are invincible. And that’s before you even add the effects of alcohol to the equation. > Neither me or anyone I work with was ever provided with a Covid test by management or even asked by management to go get independently tested. > One of these things is not like the other. I understand this bar owner’s frustrations but “extremely controlled production sets are allowed to be open/eat food so why aren’t bars open” isn’t exactly sound logic. https://www.reddit.com/r/LosAngeles/comments/k6y5f5/bar_owner_in_los_angeles_ca_is_livid_to_see_that/genp97b https://www.reddit.com/r/LosAngeles/comments/k6y5f5/bar_owne...

nickthemagicman 6y ago
"""I get it but leaning on rapid tests is pretty much a step or two above tempature checks. It doesn't catch many positives. Every White House super spreader event occurred with rapid testing in place. Then the city went on a rampage telling families last week they could not rely on the far greater and accurate PCR TESTING + isolation to see each other. That it is where it all falls apart for me I do have sympathy for officials BUT you either fully lock down or you don't. This middle ground is a mess""" https://www.reddit.com/r/LosAngeles/comments/k6y5f5/comment/genyjth https://www.reddit.com/r/LosAngeles/comments/k6y5f5/comment/...
- thrwaway2day 6y ago
  It also isn't a good look when the restrictions happen to fall on apparent political lines, even if it isn't intentional. Hollywood productions, Amazon warehouses, protests in line with democratic party values, abortion clinics and pot shops = D leaning voters = Allowed, if not encouraged Small businesses, churches, protests of lockdown measures, gun ranges, Musk and Tesla = R leaning voters = Forbidden, shun them, they are going to kill grandma Add to that the many of the people advocating for these policies fail to follow them themselves (Nancy Pelosi, Gavin Newsom, London Breed, Dianne Feinstein just to name a few) and you can see how many especially those who are losing their livelihoods see this as a attack and are frustrated. The optics are extremely bad, though that might be the point.
  - nickthemagicman 6y ago
    Whats it going to take for people to freak out and revolt, it's time. It's clearly extremely bad.
    - mindslight 6y ago
      It's going to take the people not getting distracted by red herrings. So much outrage has been channeled into destructive memes like denying that Covid is a problem and rebelling against simple measures to stop the spread. The real problem is the unsustainable structure of the economy. I don't think this woman is being driven to tears because she really wants to be running her restaurant right now, but rather because she's going to lose it completely when she falls off the debt treadmill. Instead of small businesses and individuals getting recurring stimulus and suspended rent/mortgages/taxes, we got peanuts. Meanwhile trillions of dollars were given to Wall St to make sure the magic Line keeps going up. That was a massive theft from the public to the plutocrats. But until the outrage stops getting divided and derailed by distractions, I'm afraid it will only continue.
      - thrwaway2day 6y ago
        > So much outrage has been channeled into destructive memes like denying that Covid is a problem and rebelling against simple measures to stop the spread. Here's the problem, it has been a do as I say not as I do attitude from the leadership in this country and even people who were supposed to remain non-political made moves that were suspect. For example early on when Fauci was asked if we should limit the BLM protests, he refused to make a recommendation. Now keep in mind during that same hearing he made recommendations about all kinds of other things from restaurants to sporting events. If you agree with him it's easy to overlook that, however take a moment and walk a bit in someone elses shoes, someone who has spent the past decade working to build a business or trying to support a family and was impacted by those measures and if you are honest you'll admit that it would probably piss you off to see that. Leaders need to understand that people react on a emotional level to things and if you are asking for someone to make great personal sacrifices you need to be above reproach when making those requests. To illustrate it from the other side there is a new anti-vax movement that popped up among progressives due to the fact that these new covid vaccines are being produced under a Trump presidency. When I read about the concerns they tend to have more to due with Trumps personality than the science. Again if Trump conducted himself in a more socially acceptable way and spent more time considering how his words and choices appeared to others, I suspect this new vaccine would encounter less resistance. In the scheme of history much of the suffering caused by covid can be placed squarely on a lack of leadership. It has been a long time since the United States has had a threat like this to deal with and we have learned that our leadership is woefully unprepared. If we were smart they wouldn't be our leadership for much longer.
- JMTQp8lwXL 6y ago
  The situation is evolving rapidly with regards to rapid testing. The White House super-spreader event was in September. Since then, new methods have been rolled out: https://health.ucdavis.edu/health-news/newsroom/new-cutting-edge-rapid-test-detects-both-covid-19-and-flu/2020/11 https://health.ucdavis.edu/health-news/newsroom/new-cutting-...
  - nickthemagicman 6y ago
    It's still unfair to selectively allow certain non-essential businesses to operate and ban others.
thedrbrian 6y ago
Page 11. 35-39 year olds 99.91% survival rate. 65-69 year olds 98.61% survival rate. https://spiral.imperial.ac.uk:8443/bitstream/10044/1/83545/8/2020-10-29-COVID19-Report-34.pdf https://spiral.imperial.ac.uk:8443/bitstream/10044/1/83545/8...
- kaba0 6y ago
  How many require hospitalization? Because that number will easily overflow the available healthcare services increasing death of all other conditions.. It’s not that hard to understand
- jfengel 6y ago
  "99.91%" survival rate means "1 in a thousand chance of dying". Those aren't odds people ordinarily enjoy taking. Applied to the entire United States, it would still be 300,000 dead -- about the number of American dead in World War II. Those 9s look great until you realize we're talking about dying. (And that's before we take into account the possibility of long-term disability.) "Low odds" times "Maximally bad outcome" means "take significant efforts to avoid". Like maybe minor lifestyle changes, such as not going out to restaurants. Even if that's bad for restaurant owners because, ya know, death.

nickthemagicman 6y ago

There's only been around 20,000 Covid deaths this year in the under 55 age group this year. The under 55 age group is 80% of the population. That's less than car accidents. So this is a disease that is very low risk for 80% of the American population. They have a right to be upset. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/ https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/

warricksothr 6y ago
That’s a nice narrative, but for every one of those that died from C19 there are many that didn’t. Unlike a car accident, those that survived do contribute to the spread of the virus and expose people who are at higher risk of a far more fatal outcome. Additionally every person that contracts this has a chance of needing supplemental oxygen and an intensive care bed. These are already in short supply and the people to manage these intensive care facilities aren’t an infinite resource. It is just reckless to expose more people to this virus when we have vaccines on the way to inoculate the highest risk communities. While people certainly have a right to be upset, they don’t have a right to willfully endanger others.
- nickthemagicman 6y ago
  The thing is...if the vulnerable 20% of the population can't stay in quarantine... but 80% of the population is low risk...this is not societies problem anymore.. this is that 20%'s problem.
  - dTal 6y ago
    What's the upper limit on the percentage of people you're happy to throw under the bus? Are problems only problems if they affect 51% or more of the population?
    - nickthemagicman 6y ago
      You've got it wrong. The people being thrown under the bus are the people being sent into poverty because 20% of the population can't seem to stay in quarantine. Would you put 100 million people into poverty to save 1 life of a person who wants to go to Starbucks to get a Peppermint Mocha?

kderbyma 6y ago

Should be. lockdowns should be total or none. Masks are stupid and honestly have so little evidence supporting them it's pathetic, and the lockdowns have two champion countries and everyone else is statistically insignificant when you compare with their annual expected flu response curves

warricksothr 6y ago
Plenty of evidence for the effectiveness of masks exists. The WHO published their guidelines on mask use with more than 16 cited studies from across the world[1]. Just because you feel like masks are stupid does not mean you should go spreading heresay without backing up your claims. 1. https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/advice-on-the-use-of-masks-in-the-community-during-home-care-and-in-healthcare-settings-in-the-context-of-the-novel-coronavirus-(2019-ncov)-outbreak https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/advice-on-the-use-of...

bsder 6y ago

Then perhaps she needs to spend some time screaming at the idiots who won't take precautions seriously. We didn't have to be here. Covid keeps spreading because enough people simply won't take the commonsense actions. Put a damn mask on--especially when visiting people.