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“Scholars and translators at the library also took great pains to ensure that their work was accessible to the reading public. ” This point cannot be stressed

“Scholars and translators at the library also took great pains to ensure that their work was accessible to the reading public. ” This point cannot be stressed enough.

phreeza 6y ago
What percentage of the population was the reading public back then though?
- bigbubba 6y ago
  > The centrality of scripture and its study in the Islamic tradition helped to make education a central pillar of the religion in virtually all times and places in the history of Islam.[50] The importance of learning in the Islamic tradition is reflected in a number of hadiths attributed to Muhammad, including one that instructs the faithful to "seek knowledge, even in China".[50] This injunction was seen to apply particularly to scholars, but also to some extent to the wider Muslim public, as exemplified by the dictum of al-Zarnuji, "learning is prescribed for us all".[50] While it is impossible to calculate literacy rates in pre-modern Islamic societies, it is almost certain that they were relatively high, at least in comparison to their European counterparts.[50] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age#Education https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age#Education
  - phreeza 6y ago
    Very interesting, thanks!
  - dwohnitmok 6y ago
    I don't think this is enough to conclude that "it is almost certain that they were relatively high." I don't have numbers unfortunately but anecdotally I don't think Arabic literacy rates in non-Arabic Muslim-majority countries such as Pakistan or Malaysia are very high, even though it's accorded a special place in the constitution of Pakistan.
    - bigbubba 6y ago
      This is pertaining in particular to the Islamic world of the 8th to 14th centuries, which has been called the 'Golden Age' of Islam. I think, relatively speaking by contemporary standards, you'd be hard pressed to say modern Pakistan is in a golden age. But this is well outside any of my areas of expertise, so I could be wrong.
      - dwohnitmok 6y ago
        One of my biggest takeaway from the 20th century study of history has been a wariness of using the words "Golden Age" or "Dark Age" alone to draw conclusions about what life was like for people outside of the elite. As such I'm don't think the presence of a Golden Age is itself a particularly strong argument for literacy among the general populace.
    - fakedang 6y ago
      Back then, an education was limited to basic math and arithmetic for business, a knowledge of Arabic literature and a study of the Quran, so it's very likely that people were very educated in the cities back then. Once the Abbasid Empire fell (the Islamic Golden Age period), none of the successor civilizations pursued such studies further - and none of them were Arabian empires, so that left the Arab world to stagnate. Malaysia had a strong Chinese influence coupled with an Islamic tradition, so they most certainly spoke a lot of Arabic before Dutch rule. Even during Dutch rule, Arabic was used to announce royal decrees, until Malay took over with a sense of national identity. As for Pakistan, the Western provinces are largely influenced by Afghan-Iranian culture (Pashto and Baluchi), while places like Sindh and Punjab had large Hindu populations before independence. So the study of Arabic wasn't as actively encouraged except for religious purposes. On the contrary, many Pakistanis today still stick to regional dialects and languages such as Pashto, Sindhi, Kashmiri and Punjabi, even though the official language is Urdu. Such non uniformity makes things way harder.
      - selimthegrim 6y ago
        What makes me mad is my mom learned about Ibn Shatir in Damascus at school in Karachi but not one word about al Biruni measuring circumference of Earth at Nandana in Punjab or say Bakhshali manuscript.

“Scholars and translators at the library also took great pains to ensure that their work was accessible to the reading public. ” This point cannot be stressed enough.

phreeza 6y ago

What percentage of the population was the reading public back then though?

bigbubba 6y ago
> The centrality of scripture and its study in the Islamic tradition helped to make education a central pillar of the religion in virtually all times and places in the history of Islam.[50] The importance of learning in the Islamic tradition is reflected in a number of hadiths attributed to Muhammad, including one that instructs the faithful to "seek knowledge, even in China".[50] This injunction was seen to apply particularly to scholars, but also to some extent to the wider Muslim public, as exemplified by the dictum of al-Zarnuji, "learning is prescribed for us all".[50] While it is impossible to calculate literacy rates in pre-modern Islamic societies, it is almost certain that they were relatively high, at least in comparison to their European counterparts.[50] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age#Education https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age#Education
- phreeza 6y ago
  Very interesting, thanks!
- dwohnitmok 6y ago
  I don't think this is enough to conclude that "it is almost certain that they were relatively high." I don't have numbers unfortunately but anecdotally I don't think Arabic literacy rates in non-Arabic Muslim-majority countries such as Pakistan or Malaysia are very high, even though it's accorded a special place in the constitution of Pakistan.
  - bigbubba 6y ago
    This is pertaining in particular to the Islamic world of the 8th to 14th centuries, which has been called the 'Golden Age' of Islam. I think, relatively speaking by contemporary standards, you'd be hard pressed to say modern Pakistan is in a golden age. But this is well outside any of my areas of expertise, so I could be wrong.
    - dwohnitmok 6y ago
      One of my biggest takeaway from the 20th century study of history has been a wariness of using the words "Golden Age" or "Dark Age" alone to draw conclusions about what life was like for people outside of the elite. As such I'm don't think the presence of a Golden Age is itself a particularly strong argument for literacy among the general populace.
  - fakedang 6y ago
    Back then, an education was limited to basic math and arithmetic for business, a knowledge of Arabic literature and a study of the Quran, so it's very likely that people were very educated in the cities back then. Once the Abbasid Empire fell (the Islamic Golden Age period), none of the successor civilizations pursued such studies further - and none of them were Arabian empires, so that left the Arab world to stagnate. Malaysia had a strong Chinese influence coupled with an Islamic tradition, so they most certainly spoke a lot of Arabic before Dutch rule. Even during Dutch rule, Arabic was used to announce royal decrees, until Malay took over with a sense of national identity. As for Pakistan, the Western provinces are largely influenced by Afghan-Iranian culture (Pashto and Baluchi), while places like Sindh and Punjab had large Hindu populations before independence. So the study of Arabic wasn't as actively encouraged except for religious purposes. On the contrary, many Pakistanis today still stick to regional dialects and languages such as Pashto, Sindhi, Kashmiri and Punjabi, even though the official language is Urdu. Such non uniformity makes things way harder.
    - selimthegrim 6y ago
      What makes me mad is my mom learned about Ibn Shatir in Damascus at school in Karachi but not one word about al Biruni measuring circumference of Earth at Nandana in Punjab or say Bakhshali manuscript.