6 ms·

Debian 10.7 Released

114 points by jbergstroem 6y ago

einpoklum 6y ago
Consider using Devuan, the Debian variant which removes systemd. It is basically in sync with the current Debian, with only a minimum of packages changed for the systemd removal. https://www.devuan.org https://www.devuan.org The current release is Beowulf, corresponding to buster.
- demux 6y ago
  The website says Devuan let's you "reclaim control over their system by avoiding unnecessary entanglements", what's wrong with systemd?
  - Arnavion 6y ago
    Please let's not start this discussion again, when it's been done to the death in other easily-searchable places on the internet before.
  - remlov 6y ago
    Not much, but Unix purists would argue that systemd violates the Unix philosophy. https://lwn.net/Articles/777595/ https://lwn.net/Articles/777595/
  - zozbot234 6y ago
    The (IMHO) best critique I'm aware of is at https://blog.darknedgy.net/technology/2020/05/02/0/ https://blog.darknedgy.net/technology/2020/05/02/0/ (discussed https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23062072 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23062072 )
  - kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
    > what's wrong with systemd? It was written by a cowboy coder and issues have cropped up that indicate no serious code review has been performed.
  - einpoklum 6y ago
    As others have said - I don't want to hijack this thread in favor of a systemd-yes-or-no argument. In fact, I made it a point not to use derogatory or inflammatory language in my post, and still got a bunch of downvotes. At this link: https://hn.algolia.com/?q=systemd https://hn.algolia.com/?q=systemd you will find stories involving systemd here on HN over the past several years. I and many others oppose various aspects of systemd, but more importantly, we oppose its being a nearly-inescapable default on Debian. It's not like you can just remove it if you want something else.
guerby 6y ago
English version direct link: https://www.debian.org/News/2020/20201205.en.html https://www.debian.org/News/2020/20201205.en.html
Denvercoder9 6y ago
Important to note that this is just a patch release with bugfixes, not a new major version.
- teddyh 6y ago
  Yes, but also with new updated installation media images. Historical context: It wasn’t always like this; Debian 3.1 was a major release after Debian 3.0, and Debian 6.0 had minor releases up to 6.0.10. This did not change until Debian 7 (which was called 7, not 7.0, and had a minor release numbered 7.1). Therefore, many people might still assume that an increase of the first minor version number is a major release, even though it is not true anymore.
aninteger 6y ago
Still no chromium update. It should just be removed if there is no interest in updating the browser.
- Scarbutt 6y ago
  I remember Debian keeping Chromium up-to-date, what changed?
  - Macha 6y ago
    Ubuntu moved to snaps, maybe just less manpower on building chromium dpkg's?
    - vdfs 6y ago
      That's not the reason, Ubuntu still build deb chromium updates for 18.04, this is just a Debian policy or something else Debian specific
  - vbernat 6y ago
    Chromium is maintained by only one person in Debian. This person is currently unavailable. Debian does not have good procedures to handle unavailable maintainers. There are also older reasons why there is only one person. In the past, it was a two-person effort.
- rwmj 6y ago
  If it's important to you, you should help with the work that's needed.
  - scrollaway 6y ago
    GP has a point. Removing it would be better than having a way outdated browser in the repos.
  - vbernat 6y ago
    Well, you can try to help, but there is no guarantee that your help is welcome. You will have to do the work, then convince the maintainer to accept it. If the maintainer is unresponsive, you may work for nothing. This seems the case here: we don't know why the maintainer is unresponsive. And people can't casually upload a new version due to strong ownership culture.

114 points by jbergstroem 6y ago

Consider using Devuan, the Debian variant which removes systemd. It is basically in sync with the current Debian, with only a minimum of packages changed for the systemd removal. https://www.devuan.org https://www.devuan.org The current release is Beowulf, corresponding to buster.

demux 6y ago
The website says Devuan let's you "reclaim control over their system by avoiding unnecessary entanglements", what's wrong with systemd?
- Arnavion 6y ago
  Please let's not start this discussion again, when it's been done to the death in other easily-searchable places on the internet before.
- remlov 6y ago
  Not much, but Unix purists would argue that systemd violates the Unix philosophy. https://lwn.net/Articles/777595/ https://lwn.net/Articles/777595/
- zozbot234 6y ago
  The (IMHO) best critique I'm aware of is at https://blog.darknedgy.net/technology/2020/05/02/0/ https://blog.darknedgy.net/technology/2020/05/02/0/ (discussed https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23062072 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23062072 )
- kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
  > what's wrong with systemd? It was written by a cowboy coder and issues have cropped up that indicate no serious code review has been performed.
- einpoklum 6y ago
  As others have said - I don't want to hijack this thread in favor of a systemd-yes-or-no argument. In fact, I made it a point not to use derogatory or inflammatory language in my post, and still got a bunch of downvotes. At this link: https://hn.algolia.com/?q=systemd https://hn.algolia.com/?q=systemd you will find stories involving systemd here on HN over the past several years. I and many others oppose various aspects of systemd, but more importantly, we oppose its being a nearly-inescapable default on Debian. It's not like you can just remove it if you want something else.

guerby 6y ago

English version direct link: https://www.debian.org/News/2020/20201205.en.html https://www.debian.org/News/2020/20201205.en.html

Denvercoder9 6y ago

Important to note that this is just a patch release with bugfixes, not a new major version.

teddyh 6y ago
Yes, but also with new updated installation media images. Historical context: It wasn’t always like this; Debian 3.1 was a major release after Debian 3.0, and Debian 6.0 had minor releases up to 6.0.10. This did not change until Debian 7 (which was called 7, not 7.0, and had a minor release numbered 7.1). Therefore, many people might still assume that an increase of the first minor version number is a major release, even though it is not true anymore.

aninteger 6y ago

Still no chromium update. It should just be removed if there is no interest in updating the browser.

Scarbutt 6y ago
I remember Debian keeping Chromium up-to-date, what changed?
- Macha 6y ago
  Ubuntu moved to snaps, maybe just less manpower on building chromium dpkg's?
  - vdfs 6y ago
    That's not the reason, Ubuntu still build deb chromium updates for 18.04, this is just a Debian policy or something else Debian specific
- vbernat 6y ago
  Chromium is maintained by only one person in Debian. This person is currently unavailable. Debian does not have good procedures to handle unavailable maintainers. There are also older reasons why there is only one person. In the past, it was a two-person effort.
rwmj 6y ago
If it's important to you, you should help with the work that's needed.
- scrollaway 6y ago
  GP has a point. Removing it would be better than having a way outdated browser in the repos.
- vbernat 6y ago
  Well, you can try to help, but there is no guarantee that your help is welcome. You will have to do the work, then convince the maintainer to accept it. If the maintainer is unresponsive, you may work for nothing. This seems the case here: we don't know why the maintainer is unresponsive. And people can't casually upload a new version due to strong ownership culture.