4 ms·

I'm trying to establish the link between shitty behavior and intense anxiety - which I assume most people in the mental health world would agree that intense fe

I'm trying to establish the link between shitty behavior and intense anxiety - which I assume most people in the mental health world would agree that intense feelings of anxiety underlie most bad behavior. I'm not saying if you've ever felt anxious you need to take all the drugs. But this type of intense anxiety, from which most workplace abuses manifest, cannot be easily healed. So if you see abuses at your company, fire the offender or leave. Don't let HR think they can simply heal the abuser it won't happen as every study has shown.

hitekker 6y ago
> most people in the mental health world would agree that intense feelings of anxiety underlie most bad behavior That is a huge assumption to make, without any supporting evidence. > But intense anxiety, from which most workplace abuses manifest.. I agree with the GP. You can't pseudo-intellectually rationalize all malice as mental illness.
- skim_milk 6y ago
  Ok. I believe if you abuse your workers, you are unhealthy, you cannot be healed easily by HR, and I will fire you/not work for you (this paper is evidence of that this belief is scientific truth, but let's just say it's a belief). I believe if you avoid abusive people in life and at work you will live a happier life. I guess I will have to make a religion out of avoiding abusive people so I can't be criticized for it?
heavyset_go 6y ago
This is a common myth about abuse. Abusers act they way they do because their behavior gets them what they want, not because they're driven to abuse by mental illness. Some abusers would like you to believe that, however, because it shifts the blame for their behavior away from them and ultimately gets them what they want.
- P_I_Staker 6y ago
  I don’t think this is really true. Stuff I’ve read from psychologists say the opposite. It’s actually really controversial, and people are debating what role therapy should play in abuse cases. I don’t think a link to mental illness is even really disputed anymore. They’ve actually started screening people out of traditional programs, due to mental illness and drug addiction in criminal abuse cases. I’m trying to say away from the hairy politics here, as it can get quite heated.
  - TheOtherHobbes 6y ago
    My understanding is that is complicated, and in many cases it's involuntary. Sociopaths are abusers because they utterly lack empathy, are prone to risk taking to the point where they will harm self and others, and may even lack the brain structures that make empathy possible. Clearly no amount of management training is going to fix that. Narcissists are abusers because they live in a state of constant severe unconscious anxiety, trying to shore up a very brittle and fragile ego with fantasies of omnipotence and irresistibility. Most people are narcissistic some of the time, but pathological narcissists are narcissistic to the point that they cannot have normal human relationships, ever. Again - you're not going to fix someone like that with a training course, because it's more of a embedded psychological and emotional disability. Even therapists don't rate the chances of improvement very highly after extended sessions - so a week or two certainly won't be enough. None of this has any connection to being anxious about something, like a deadline, or a date, or an exam. Or with panic attacks. Or with being an overtly anxious person who may be prone to worry. That's a different syndrome and isn't noticeably linked to abusive behaviour. Instead, these are classed as personality disorders - so not quite mental illness, but also not quite sanity. There are no psychotic delusions, and no loss of lucidity. But there are severe emotional distortions and disabilities which can be contagious in that they promote harm of self and others. They're also just plain unpleasant and toxic to be around. Trying to decide if someone with one of these conditions is actually responsible for their own actions is as much of a philosophical problem as a moral one. But it's absolutely clear that people with Dark Triad issues are almost invariably poisonous in organisations and will create extremely unpleasant and toxic experiences in a work environment.

hitekker 6y ago

> most people in the mental health world would agree that intense feelings of anxiety underlie most bad behavior That is a huge assumption to make, without any supporting evidence. > But intense anxiety, from which most workplace abuses manifest.. I agree with the GP. You can't pseudo-intellectually rationalize all malice as mental illness.

skim_milk 6y ago
Ok. I believe if you abuse your workers, you are unhealthy, you cannot be healed easily by HR, and I will fire you/not work for you (this paper is evidence of that this belief is scientific truth, but let's just say it's a belief). I believe if you avoid abusive people in life and at work you will live a happier life. I guess I will have to make a religion out of avoiding abusive people so I can't be criticized for it?

heavyset_go 6y ago

This is a common myth about abuse. Abusers act they way they do because their behavior gets them what they want, not because they're driven to abuse by mental illness. Some abusers would like you to believe that, however, because it shifts the blame for their behavior away from them and ultimately gets them what they want.

P_I_Staker 6y ago
I don’t think this is really true. Stuff I’ve read from psychologists say the opposite. It’s actually really controversial, and people are debating what role therapy should play in abuse cases. I don’t think a link to mental illness is even really disputed anymore. They’ve actually started screening people out of traditional programs, due to mental illness and drug addiction in criminal abuse cases. I’m trying to say away from the hairy politics here, as it can get quite heated.
- TheOtherHobbes 6y ago
  My understanding is that is complicated, and in many cases it's involuntary. Sociopaths are abusers because they utterly lack empathy, are prone to risk taking to the point where they will harm self and others, and may even lack the brain structures that make empathy possible. Clearly no amount of management training is going to fix that. Narcissists are abusers because they live in a state of constant severe unconscious anxiety, trying to shore up a very brittle and fragile ego with fantasies of omnipotence and irresistibility. Most people are narcissistic some of the time, but pathological narcissists are narcissistic to the point that they cannot have normal human relationships, ever. Again - you're not going to fix someone like that with a training course, because it's more of a embedded psychological and emotional disability. Even therapists don't rate the chances of improvement very highly after extended sessions - so a week or two certainly won't be enough. None of this has any connection to being anxious about something, like a deadline, or a date, or an exam. Or with panic attacks. Or with being an overtly anxious person who may be prone to worry. That's a different syndrome and isn't noticeably linked to abusive behaviour. Instead, these are classed as personality disorders - so not quite mental illness, but also not quite sanity. There are no psychotic delusions, and no loss of lucidity. But there are severe emotional distortions and disabilities which can be contagious in that they promote harm of self and others. They're also just plain unpleasant and toxic to be around. Trying to decide if someone with one of these conditions is actually responsible for their own actions is as much of a philosophical problem as a moral one. But it's absolutely clear that people with Dark Triad issues are almost invariably poisonous in organisations and will create extremely unpleasant and toxic experiences in a work environment.