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>So, anxious people (depressed or grandiose) feel they have to lie, manipulate, abuse to stay where they are at As someone who has anxiety and knows several pe

>So, anxious people (depressed or grandiose) feel they have to lie, manipulate, abuse to stay where they are at As someone who has anxiety and knows several people with anxiety, this has not been my experience at all. Like I am probably in a lower paying job than I should be despite my performance because I am too anxious to ask for a raise or interview around. I am not good enough socially to manipulate people, if I had those skills I would probably not be anxious. I have learned at a very young age to treat people very well because I need long term relationships, I can't quickly charm someone new if destroy my current relationships. My anxiety makes my sensitive not just to criticism but toward the feelings of others. Some anxious people are assholes just like some charming people are. But most are just normal people trying to play the hand they were dealt.

skim_milk 6y ago
I don't know why I wrote the first paragraph, I was groggy and I can't comprehend what I was thinking originally. The point I was trying to make is that lay people cannot heal intense anxiety, and workplace abuses are evidence of that intense anxiety. So HR should always immediately fire workplace abusers simply on the fact that the abuser cannot be healed by HR and they will not improve despite their best efforts, which seems to be the conclusion that all the scientific papers on abusers are trying to help us go towards. I had an abusive boss in the past and their intense anxiety/insecurity/whatever you call it is maddening.
- eska 6y ago
  You're not actually responding to what people are saying to you. You: 1. anxiety causes people to manipulate, lie, etc. 2. anxiety cannot be cured quickly => it's best to fire them instead of trying to "heal" them. Others to you: no, anxiety does not (necessarily) cause people to manipulate, lie, etc., so your conclusion is wrong. You're just repeating yourself..
  - Gupie 6y ago
    He is not saying that people with anxiety are abusive he is saying that abusive people are often have anxiety, i.e. a subset of anxious people try to cope with their anxiety by being grandiose and abusing.
SuoDuanDao 6y ago
I came across an interesting factoid on Lex Fridman's interview with Andrew Huberman - of the 'fight, flight, freeze' trifecta, freeze is actually associated with the lowest level of anxiety. Fight - or any action that involves moving towards the stressor - is associated with the highest level of anxiety, though it also causes massive dopamine releases when the result is positive. So thin-skinned narcissists that aggressively climb status hierarchies are probably much more anxious than yourself. I don't have an opinion on what you should do with that information, but I think it's interesting.

skim_milk 6y ago

I don't know why I wrote the first paragraph, I was groggy and I can't comprehend what I was thinking originally. The point I was trying to make is that lay people cannot heal intense anxiety, and workplace abuses are evidence of that intense anxiety. So HR should always immediately fire workplace abusers simply on the fact that the abuser cannot be healed by HR and they will not improve despite their best efforts, which seems to be the conclusion that all the scientific papers on abusers are trying to help us go towards. I had an abusive boss in the past and their intense anxiety/insecurity/whatever you call it is maddening.

eska 6y ago
You're not actually responding to what people are saying to you. You: 1. anxiety causes people to manipulate, lie, etc. 2. anxiety cannot be cured quickly => it's best to fire them instead of trying to "heal" them. Others to you: no, anxiety does not (necessarily) cause people to manipulate, lie, etc., so your conclusion is wrong. You're just repeating yourself..
- Gupie 6y ago
  He is not saying that people with anxiety are abusive he is saying that abusive people are often have anxiety, i.e. a subset of anxious people try to cope with their anxiety by being grandiose and abusing.

SuoDuanDao 6y ago

I came across an interesting factoid on Lex Fridman's interview with Andrew Huberman - of the 'fight, flight, freeze' trifecta, freeze is actually associated with the lowest level of anxiety. Fight - or any action that involves moving towards the stressor - is associated with the highest level of anxiety, though it also causes massive dopamine releases when the result is positive. So thin-skinned narcissists that aggressively climb status hierarchies are probably much more anxious than yourself. I don't have an opinion on what you should do with that information, but I think it's interesting.