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Have you ever considered the possibility that China has "less people in prison" because their government just kills any dissident and "troublemaker" without any

Have you ever considered the possibility that China has "less people in prison" because their government just kills any dissident and "troublemaker" without any semblance of due judicial process?

civilized 6y ago
Stop giving him such a hard time! China's execution rate is a state secret, so no one really knows how high it is, but it's estimated to be significantly lower than that of peer countries like Saudi Arabia and Iran :) And besides that, who cares if some troublemakers are killed off? The Han "collective" is not bothered by such minor things as individual rights and due process
notreallytrue 6y ago
While the US instead is good to his people They only kill their presidents, the brothers of the dead presidents, political activists who only wanted fair treatment for the minorities and of course regular citizens https://www.salon.com/2010/04/07/assassinations_2/ https://www.salon.com/2010/04/07/assassinations_2/ They only kill people in other countries by starting wars on fake news or support Nazi dictatorships all over the world https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change_in_Latin_America https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in... can you tell me anyway why in US there are still 700 people in jail every 100k while in Italy they are 112, the European average is 127 and the World average is 156? Do you really believe that China has 15 million people in jail while they secretly killed 86 million (assuming they have the same rate of incarceration of the US) of them to not look bad in comparison to USA? Do you really believe you can go from 700 to 115 by hiding the deaths? Aere you really THAT stupid?
- rglullis 6y ago
  First, stop moving the goal posts and the whataboutism. Now you are bringing things like political assassinations. Can you go the part where almost we talk about how almost 50 million people starved to death due to the ideology of the Great Leader, or how the country has 300 million excess men because of the one-child policy which led to sex-selective abortions and plain brutal infanticide? Second, you seem to be the under the impression that I defend the things done by the US State. I do not. It is precisely because I do not like the US State that I do not want to give it more power than it already has. In fact, it has been quite a bit amusing to see your cognitive dissonance of talking about all the horrible things that the US Government has done and yet you want me and everyone else to "Trust the State" with social media. It's almost as amusing as the cognitive dissonance you show when you say you want to take things out of control of "private entities" and put them to the control of the state that you so clearly (and justifiably) loathe. > Do you really believe you can go from 700 to 115 by hiding the deaths? Take just the million Uighur in "re-education centers" and call the thing by what it really is - a concentration camp - and suddenly this number already goes up quite a bit. However, what you are failing to understand is that there is no point in comparing a country that has established (however flawed) democratic institutions with a country whose authoritarian rulers have unchecked powers. The numbers are meaningless if the masses are subjected to tyranny and indoctrinated to never question the authority of the leaders.
  - notreallytrue 6y ago
    > First, stop moving the goal posts and the whataboutism. Now you are bringing things like political assassinations Can you tell me who wrote this and brought up political assassination? Because I'm sure it wasn't me. > Have you ever considered the possibility that China has "less people in prison" because their government just kills any dissident and "troublemaker" without any semblance of due judicial process? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25316054 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25316054 > Take just the million Uighur in "re-education centers" You mean like the Mexican kids kept in cages while their parents were being deported for the simple fact of being Mexicans? How many people suffered because of this thing I will link here for the nth time? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change_in_Latin_America https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in... And that's only one of many What about this? > effects of the Gulf War and over a decade of economic sanctions have resulted in the deaths of 500,000 children due to malnutrition, diarrhea, and other preventable diseases. (The gulf war was started on a lie, fabricated by the US government)
    - rglullis 6y ago
      I ask to stop with the whataboutism and you respond with more of it. I get it, you don't like the US State. Me neither. You don't like Facebook. Guess what? Neither do I. The point of our disagreement is that you seem to believe that people do only bad things because Big Bad American companies are manipulating them. And your solution is to destroy them by executive order and give all this power to... the US State! The cognitive dissonance is so strong you simply refuse to acknowledge this point every time I mentioned, and you prefer to distill more diatribes against the US. I am not interested in more diatribes against the US government. I dislike it and distrust it already to know that I don't want it to have more power. What I want to understand is what do you propose besides measures only seen in totalitarian dystopias.
      - notreallytrue2 6y ago
        > I ask to stop with the whataboutism and you respond with more of it. Whataboutism is not what you think it is If you ask, you might not like the answer. Get over it. > The cognitive dissonance is so strong you simply refuse to acknowledge this point every time I mentioned, and you prefer to distill more diatribes against the US. Only because they did wrong, repeatedly. Would you hire a pedophile as a kid educator? > What I want to understand is what do you propose besides measures only seen in totalitarian dystopias. Isn't the US government using the same measures only seen in totalitarian dystopias? Assange, Mannings, Snowden and the poor Aaron Swartz are victims of which government? For the simple fact that they exposed what the US government did. Aaron Swartz only released public material to the public... You can argue about solutions once you address the problem. But what would you do to address the problem? Keep bombing other countries? Or ban people for saying out loud what's evident? Freedom of speech But not on HN Because freedom of speech is valued only when they agree with you? What's the difference between silencing what you don't like and totalitarian dystopias?

Have you ever considered the possibility that China has "less people in prison" because their government just kills any dissident and "troublemaker" without any semblance of due judicial process?

civilized 6y ago

Stop giving him such a hard time! China's execution rate is a state secret, so no one really knows how high it is, but it's estimated to be significantly lower than that of peer countries like Saudi Arabia and Iran :) And besides that, who cares if some troublemakers are killed off? The Han "collective" is not bothered by such minor things as individual rights and due process

notreallytrue 6y ago

While the US instead is good to his people They only kill their presidents, the brothers of the dead presidents, political activists who only wanted fair treatment for the minorities and of course regular citizens https://www.salon.com/2010/04/07/assassinations_2/ https://www.salon.com/2010/04/07/assassinations_2/ They only kill people in other countries by starting wars on fake news or support Nazi dictatorships all over the world https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change_in_Latin_America https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in... can you tell me anyway why in US there are still 700 people in jail every 100k while in Italy they are 112, the European average is 127 and the World average is 156? Do you really believe that China has 15 million people in jail while they secretly killed 86 million (assuming they have the same rate of incarceration of the US) of them to not look bad in comparison to USA? Do you really believe you can go from 700 to 115 by hiding the deaths? Aere you really THAT stupid?

rglullis 6y ago
First, stop moving the goal posts and the whataboutism. Now you are bringing things like political assassinations. Can you go the part where almost we talk about how almost 50 million people starved to death due to the ideology of the Great Leader, or how the country has 300 million excess men because of the one-child policy which led to sex-selective abortions and plain brutal infanticide? Second, you seem to be the under the impression that I defend the things done by the US State. I do not. It is precisely because I do not like the US State that I do not want to give it more power than it already has. In fact, it has been quite a bit amusing to see your cognitive dissonance of talking about all the horrible things that the US Government has done and yet you want me and everyone else to "Trust the State" with social media. It's almost as amusing as the cognitive dissonance you show when you say you want to take things out of control of "private entities" and put them to the control of the state that you so clearly (and justifiably) loathe. > Do you really believe you can go from 700 to 115 by hiding the deaths? Take just the million Uighur in "re-education centers" and call the thing by what it really is - a concentration camp - and suddenly this number already goes up quite a bit. However, what you are failing to understand is that there is no point in comparing a country that has established (however flawed) democratic institutions with a country whose authoritarian rulers have unchecked powers. The numbers are meaningless if the masses are subjected to tyranny and indoctrinated to never question the authority of the leaders.
- notreallytrue 6y ago
  > First, stop moving the goal posts and the whataboutism. Now you are bringing things like political assassinations Can you tell me who wrote this and brought up political assassination? Because I'm sure it wasn't me. > Have you ever considered the possibility that China has "less people in prison" because their government just kills any dissident and "troublemaker" without any semblance of due judicial process? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25316054 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25316054 > Take just the million Uighur in "re-education centers" You mean like the Mexican kids kept in cages while their parents were being deported for the simple fact of being Mexicans? How many people suffered because of this thing I will link here for the nth time? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change_in_Latin_America https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in... And that's only one of many What about this? > effects of the Gulf War and over a decade of economic sanctions have resulted in the deaths of 500,000 children due to malnutrition, diarrhea, and other preventable diseases. (The gulf war was started on a lie, fabricated by the US government)
  - rglullis 6y ago
    I ask to stop with the whataboutism and you respond with more of it. I get it, you don't like the US State. Me neither. You don't like Facebook. Guess what? Neither do I. The point of our disagreement is that you seem to believe that people do only bad things because Big Bad American companies are manipulating them. And your solution is to destroy them by executive order and give all this power to... the US State! The cognitive dissonance is so strong you simply refuse to acknowledge this point every time I mentioned, and you prefer to distill more diatribes against the US. I am not interested in more diatribes against the US government. I dislike it and distrust it already to know that I don't want it to have more power. What I want to understand is what do you propose besides measures only seen in totalitarian dystopias.
    - notreallytrue2 6y ago
      > I ask to stop with the whataboutism and you respond with more of it. Whataboutism is not what you think it is If you ask, you might not like the answer. Get over it. > The cognitive dissonance is so strong you simply refuse to acknowledge this point every time I mentioned, and you prefer to distill more diatribes against the US. Only because they did wrong, repeatedly. Would you hire a pedophile as a kid educator? > What I want to understand is what do you propose besides measures only seen in totalitarian dystopias. Isn't the US government using the same measures only seen in totalitarian dystopias? Assange, Mannings, Snowden and the poor Aaron Swartz are victims of which government? For the simple fact that they exposed what the US government did. Aaron Swartz only released public material to the public... You can argue about solutions once you address the problem. But what would you do to address the problem? Keep bombing other countries? Or ban people for saying out loud what's evident? Freedom of speech But not on HN Because freedom of speech is valued only when they agree with you? What's the difference between silencing what you don't like and totalitarian dystopias?