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> Weird and revealing double standard you got there, comparing "Chinese" as a collective to "many" Americans. Chinese are collectively more or less in the same

> Weird and revealing double standard you got there, comparing "Chinese" as a collective to "many" Americans. Chinese are collectively more or less in the same situation, they are ethnically mostly the same people and live under the same rules, Americans are not. Few very reach Americans enjoy all the freedom power can buy, everyone else either comply or suffer the consequences You really did not know? > Chinese who are much, much, much less free than nearly all Americans Nope. I don't believe in the kind of freedom Americans believe to possess It's simply a different kind of tyranny Unless you mean the freedom to be shot in the streets. For example: there are 700 people in jail every 100k citizens in USA, they are only 115 in China. In 2008 USA had the 25% of the global World jail population And you know why? Because the private prison system in USA is highly profitable USA has the lowest life expectancy of the whole west and it's only one year longer than China, despite being the country with the highest spending per capita in healthcare in the entire globe. Is this the freedom you're talking about? So no, USA is not a benchmark for anything good, including the exercise of free speech, which is only a lame excuse to not take action against extremists propaganda > Indeed So sometimes you experience moments of lucidity when you see yourself for what you really are? That must hurt!

civilized 6y ago
> Because the private prison system in USA is highly profitable LOL. You "know" just enough to remain comfortable in your ideology, and your self-imposed media echo chamber is more than happy to feed that "knowledge" to you. If you think you are credible outside your tribe... don't quit your day job. You're just as delusional as the people whose speech you wish to control, and hence provide an abject illustration of why we don't want state control of our speech. And don't feel bad that China is still behind the US in so many ways, there will be a Great Leap Forward very soon!
- notreallytrue 6y ago
  You must know that USA is not on the media here unless there are the elections Of course having elected a madmen you rose to the top of everything that's ridiculous, but still not at the level of things we really care about There is no "media echo chamber" on the contrary, the media are quite aligned to being US allies no matter what, because US have always bought friendships with good money On the other hand there are real situations you probably don't know about, being American and ignorant, that actually happen involving Americans here that if they happened on US soil, USA would have started a war I can name just a few: Sigonella,Cermis, Ustica But I can also name the many military bases on our soil that all the girls know toa void because if some American soldier rapes you, nobody will pay And it happens a lot more than you imagine But all in all the question remains: if the World average jail population is 156 people every 100k citizen, how is it possible that a country that has 5 times that should be considered more free? Can you explain how the US prison system is better than the Norway's one and why we all should copy it? Please. Also, I don't wish to control anyone's speech, I know that it's hard to understand, but I simply don't want to let the control in the hands of American mega corporations, which, history proves, have never operated in good faith out of the kindness of their hearts, but only to keep spoiling poor people for their profit
rglullis 6y ago
Have you ever considered the possibility that China has "less people in prison" because their government just kills any dissident and "troublemaker" without any semblance of due judicial process?
- civilized 6y ago
  Stop giving him such a hard time! China's execution rate is a state secret, so no one really knows how high it is, but it's estimated to be significantly lower than that of peer countries like Saudi Arabia and Iran :) And besides that, who cares if some troublemakers are killed off? The Han "collective" is not bothered by such minor things as individual rights and due process
- notreallytrue 6y ago
  While the US instead is good to his people They only kill their presidents, the brothers of the dead presidents, political activists who only wanted fair treatment for the minorities and of course regular citizens https://www.salon.com/2010/04/07/assassinations_2/ https://www.salon.com/2010/04/07/assassinations_2/ They only kill people in other countries by starting wars on fake news or support Nazi dictatorships all over the world https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change_in_Latin_America https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in... can you tell me anyway why in US there are still 700 people in jail every 100k while in Italy they are 112, the European average is 127 and the World average is 156? Do you really believe that China has 15 million people in jail while they secretly killed 86 million (assuming they have the same rate of incarceration of the US) of them to not look bad in comparison to USA? Do you really believe you can go from 700 to 115 by hiding the deaths? Aere you really THAT stupid?
  - rglullis 6y ago
    First, stop moving the goal posts and the whataboutism. Now you are bringing things like political assassinations. Can you go the part where almost we talk about how almost 50 million people starved to death due to the ideology of the Great Leader, or how the country has 300 million excess men because of the one-child policy which led to sex-selective abortions and plain brutal infanticide? Second, you seem to be the under the impression that I defend the things done by the US State. I do not. It is precisely because I do not like the US State that I do not want to give it more power than it already has. In fact, it has been quite a bit amusing to see your cognitive dissonance of talking about all the horrible things that the US Government has done and yet you want me and everyone else to "Trust the State" with social media. It's almost as amusing as the cognitive dissonance you show when you say you want to take things out of control of "private entities" and put them to the control of the state that you so clearly (and justifiably) loathe. > Do you really believe you can go from 700 to 115 by hiding the deaths? Take just the million Uighur in "re-education centers" and call the thing by what it really is - a concentration camp - and suddenly this number already goes up quite a bit. However, what you are failing to understand is that there is no point in comparing a country that has established (however flawed) democratic institutions with a country whose authoritarian rulers have unchecked powers. The numbers are meaningless if the masses are subjected to tyranny and indoctrinated to never question the authority of the leaders.
wizzwizz4 6y ago
> Chinese are collectively more or less in the same situation, they are ethnically mostly the same people and live under the same rules, Perhaps the ones you hear about are “ethnically mostly the same people”, but that's not actually true.
- notreallytrue 6y ago
  I'm sorry if Han people make up for 92% of the population, there are over 1.2 billion of them I will rephrase this way "92% of Chinese people are part of the Han ethnic group but that doesn't mean that they are mostly the same people... oh no wait! IT DOES!"
  - wizzwizz4 6y ago
    More than 1 in 15 Chinese people are not part of the Han ethnic group. When somebody makes big “mostly” generalisations about people, I don't expect “you could have half the clubs in a school composed of these people and still have some left over, assuming uniform distribution” to be true. You do know that saying bad things about $CountryX doesn't prove good things about $CountryY, and vice versa, right?
    - notreallytrue 6y ago
      > More than 1 in 15 Chinese people are not part of the Han ethnic group Are you jocking right? 1/15 is about 7%, did I say or did I not that ~92% of the people in China are from Han ethnic group? 92+7 = 99 so yeah, there are mostly the same people in China I never said that the other ethnic minorities are uniformly distributed or that they do not exist. For example anybody would say that in Italy the population is mainly formed by Italians. And that would be true even though Italians in Italy have dropped to around 90% of the total. Less than the Han in China.

civilized 6y ago

> Because the private prison system in USA is highly profitable LOL. You "know" just enough to remain comfortable in your ideology, and your self-imposed media echo chamber is more than happy to feed that "knowledge" to you. If you think you are credible outside your tribe... don't quit your day job. You're just as delusional as the people whose speech you wish to control, and hence provide an abject illustration of why we don't want state control of our speech. And don't feel bad that China is still behind the US in so many ways, there will be a Great Leap Forward very soon!

notreallytrue 6y ago
You must know that USA is not on the media here unless there are the elections Of course having elected a madmen you rose to the top of everything that's ridiculous, but still not at the level of things we really care about There is no "media echo chamber" on the contrary, the media are quite aligned to being US allies no matter what, because US have always bought friendships with good money On the other hand there are real situations you probably don't know about, being American and ignorant, that actually happen involving Americans here that if they happened on US soil, USA would have started a war I can name just a few: Sigonella,Cermis, Ustica But I can also name the many military bases on our soil that all the girls know toa void because if some American soldier rapes you, nobody will pay And it happens a lot more than you imagine But all in all the question remains: if the World average jail population is 156 people every 100k citizen, how is it possible that a country that has 5 times that should be considered more free? Can you explain how the US prison system is better than the Norway's one and why we all should copy it? Please. Also, I don't wish to control anyone's speech, I know that it's hard to understand, but I simply don't want to let the control in the hands of American mega corporations, which, history proves, have never operated in good faith out of the kindness of their hearts, but only to keep spoiling poor people for their profit

rglullis 6y ago

Have you ever considered the possibility that China has "less people in prison" because their government just kills any dissident and "troublemaker" without any semblance of due judicial process?

civilized 6y ago
Stop giving him such a hard time! China's execution rate is a state secret, so no one really knows how high it is, but it's estimated to be significantly lower than that of peer countries like Saudi Arabia and Iran :) And besides that, who cares if some troublemakers are killed off? The Han "collective" is not bothered by such minor things as individual rights and due process
notreallytrue 6y ago
While the US instead is good to his people They only kill their presidents, the brothers of the dead presidents, political activists who only wanted fair treatment for the minorities and of course regular citizens https://www.salon.com/2010/04/07/assassinations_2/ https://www.salon.com/2010/04/07/assassinations_2/ They only kill people in other countries by starting wars on fake news or support Nazi dictatorships all over the world https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change_in_Latin_America https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in... can you tell me anyway why in US there are still 700 people in jail every 100k while in Italy they are 112, the European average is 127 and the World average is 156? Do you really believe that China has 15 million people in jail while they secretly killed 86 million (assuming they have the same rate of incarceration of the US) of them to not look bad in comparison to USA? Do you really believe you can go from 700 to 115 by hiding the deaths? Aere you really THAT stupid?
- rglullis 6y ago
  First, stop moving the goal posts and the whataboutism. Now you are bringing things like political assassinations. Can you go the part where almost we talk about how almost 50 million people starved to death due to the ideology of the Great Leader, or how the country has 300 million excess men because of the one-child policy which led to sex-selective abortions and plain brutal infanticide? Second, you seem to be the under the impression that I defend the things done by the US State. I do not. It is precisely because I do not like the US State that I do not want to give it more power than it already has. In fact, it has been quite a bit amusing to see your cognitive dissonance of talking about all the horrible things that the US Government has done and yet you want me and everyone else to "Trust the State" with social media. It's almost as amusing as the cognitive dissonance you show when you say you want to take things out of control of "private entities" and put them to the control of the state that you so clearly (and justifiably) loathe. > Do you really believe you can go from 700 to 115 by hiding the deaths? Take just the million Uighur in "re-education centers" and call the thing by what it really is - a concentration camp - and suddenly this number already goes up quite a bit. However, what you are failing to understand is that there is no point in comparing a country that has established (however flawed) democratic institutions with a country whose authoritarian rulers have unchecked powers. The numbers are meaningless if the masses are subjected to tyranny and indoctrinated to never question the authority of the leaders.

wizzwizz4 6y ago

> Chinese are collectively more or less in the same situation, they are ethnically mostly the same people and live under the same rules, Perhaps the ones you hear about are “ethnically mostly the same people”, but that's not actually true.

notreallytrue 6y ago
I'm sorry if Han people make up for 92% of the population, there are over 1.2 billion of them I will rephrase this way "92% of Chinese people are part of the Han ethnic group but that doesn't mean that they are mostly the same people... oh no wait! IT DOES!"
- wizzwizz4 6y ago
  More than 1 in 15 Chinese people are not part of the Han ethnic group. When somebody makes big “mostly” generalisations about people, I don't expect “you could have half the clubs in a school composed of these people and still have some left over, assuming uniform distribution” to be true. You do know that saying bad things about $CountryX doesn't prove good things about $CountryY, and vice versa, right?
  - notreallytrue 6y ago
    > More than 1 in 15 Chinese people are not part of the Han ethnic group Are you jocking right? 1/15 is about 7%, did I say or did I not that ~92% of the people in China are from Han ethnic group? 92+7 = 99 so yeah, there are mostly the same people in China I never said that the other ethnic minorities are uniformly distributed or that they do not exist. For example anybody would say that in Italy the population is mainly formed by Italians. And that would be true even though Italians in Italy have dropped to around 90% of the total. Less than the Han in China.