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And taking on massive student loan debt (also government subsidized) that you spend the majority of your adult lifetime paying off is only true for a few decade

by imgabe 6y ago

And taking on massive student loan debt (also government subsidized) that you spend the majority of your adult lifetime paying off is only true for a few decades at the end of the 20th and beginning of the 21st century. I don't know why you're married to this concept as the end-all, be-all only option for education financing, especially when there is an endless flood of people saying how it personally harmed them. There are absolutely not enough foreign students to keep shoring up US universities. Many mid and lower tier schools are already experiencing cash flow problems. Many should and probably will close. There's no law of nature that demands you have to spend $40k a year to have someone tell you what Hamlet is about just so you can be qualified to come up with a new marketing campaign for a soft drink or whatever you end up doing. Most jobs don't require anything you learn in college, so why are we forcing kids into a lifetime of indentured servitude just so they can get a degree?

deleted 6y ago
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twblalock 6y ago
> And taking on massive student loan debt (also government subsidized) that you spend the majority of your adult lifetime paying off is only true for a few decades at the end of the 20th and beginning of the 21st century. How much do you honestly think the average student takes on? What about the median? You mentioned $40k/yr to learn Hamlet. The figures I am looking up show less than $30k total over 4 years of education. It is pretty hard to believe that can be a lifelong debt or result in "indentured servitude", as you put it.
- imgabe 6y ago
  I don't get how you consider $30k "not a big deal". That's just the average, many people owe a lot more than that. The median entry level salary is $41k. That means the average student is coming out of college owing 75% of their income. That is ridiculous. According to this [1] the average payment is $393. If you're making $41k, that's $3416 per month gross, maybe $2300 after taxes and 401k contributions. Good luck finding an apartment in a city with any jobs for less than $1k per month. That leaves you $1300, with a $393 monthly payment you're spending about 30% of your monthly disposable income just to service debt. That leaves $800 for food, utilities, transportation, saving, going out with friends and having some semblance of a social life, dating. It's not impossible, but don't pretend a nearly $400/month payment is not huge burden for someone in that situation. If they're smart and careful, yeah, they can manage it, but if not, or if they have some bad luck, get sick, any sort of financial trouble and they're suddenly in a huge hole, with no savings and an inescapable debt. The forbearance programs are a joke. Fees and interest continue to accrue and people come out of them owing double what they did when they went in. You can't say "Oh it's just a Camry!" no sane person would recommend that anyone take out a car loan for 75% of their annual income. And that's assuming they even finish school and get a median level job. It's the median, so 50% of people are earning less and are even worse off. There are knock-on effects to the rest of the economy. People are delaying buying houses (if they can ever afford to), having kids. They can't afford to move or take risks, start businesses. What is it going to look like in 20 or 30 years when an entire generation has grown up stunted by this burden? [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackfriedman/2020/02/03/student-loan-debt-statistics/?sh=28d5654281fe https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackfriedman/2020/02/03/student...

by imgabe 6y ago

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

twblalock 6y ago

> And taking on massive student loan debt (also government subsidized) that you spend the majority of your adult lifetime paying off is only true for a few decades at the end of the 20th and beginning of the 21st century. How much do you honestly think the average student takes on? What about the median? You mentioned $40k/yr to learn Hamlet. The figures I am looking up show less than $30k total over 4 years of education. It is pretty hard to believe that can be a lifelong debt or result in "indentured servitude", as you put it.

imgabe 6y ago
I don't get how you consider $30k "not a big deal". That's just the average, many people owe a lot more than that. The median entry level salary is $41k. That means the average student is coming out of college owing 75% of their income. That is ridiculous. According to this [1] the average payment is $393. If you're making $41k, that's $3416 per month gross, maybe $2300 after taxes and 401k contributions. Good luck finding an apartment in a city with any jobs for less than $1k per month. That leaves you $1300, with a $393 monthly payment you're spending about 30% of your monthly disposable income just to service debt. That leaves $800 for food, utilities, transportation, saving, going out with friends and having some semblance of a social life, dating. It's not impossible, but don't pretend a nearly $400/month payment is not huge burden for someone in that situation. If they're smart and careful, yeah, they can manage it, but if not, or if they have some bad luck, get sick, any sort of financial trouble and they're suddenly in a huge hole, with no savings and an inescapable debt. The forbearance programs are a joke. Fees and interest continue to accrue and people come out of them owing double what they did when they went in. You can't say "Oh it's just a Camry!" no sane person would recommend that anyone take out a car loan for 75% of their annual income. And that's assuming they even finish school and get a median level job. It's the median, so 50% of people are earning less and are even worse off. There are knock-on effects to the rest of the economy. People are delaying buying houses (if they can ever afford to), having kids. They can't afford to move or take risks, start businesses. What is it going to look like in 20 or 30 years when an entire generation has grown up stunted by this burden? [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackfriedman/2020/02/03/student-loan-debt-statistics/?sh=28d5654281fe https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackfriedman/2020/02/03/student...