The overlap is probably in framework builders, and that trickles down a bit to the users who like to use them and some of the users forced to use them. I wonder

The overlap is probably in framework builders, and that trickles down a bit to the users who like to use them and some of the users forced to use them. I wonder if "I don't need a framework" gets you crazy looks in the broader PHP world today? Going no-framework was already increasingly out of fashion as of around PHP 5.3 (when I got out and stopped bothering to learn the new updates -- my last project used the Yii framework) so it wouldn't surprise me. Sure there's still the old practical business-needs-first PHP, I was able to update some old PHP to v7 without much fuss, yet it's more than just out of fashion it's ripe for any consultant or new employee looking to make a name for themselves to "clean up" and get with the times. Younger me would probably cringe but I'd just advise to use Java instead of modern PHP with all its bells and whistles and patterns, there seems to be little difference anymore.