4 ms·

> This sounds a lot like taking what Google said without including Timnit’s point of view. Not at all. I've read everything she's written on the issue includin

> This sounds a lot like taking what Google said without including Timnit’s point of view. Not at all. I've read everything she's written on the issue including the long message she wrote to the brain group, and her tweets where she shared what Google said when they accepted her resignation. These latter make specific reference to the ultimatum, which was the ultimate reason for her departure. As I pointed out in the previous discussion she may have faced some sort of disciplinary action upon her return from vacation due to the content of her message to the brain group. However, when she resigned what Google managers did (and this is no great leap of logic) is figure out that if they made her work her notice period she'd probably only cause more trouble in the meantime, so they brought it forward and made it effective immediately. This might or might not be unusual behaviour for handling a resignation at Google, but it is fairly common practice amongst different organisations for a variety of different reasons that usually boil down to mitigating some kimd of risk to the organisation.

saagarjha 6y ago
…and? Did you not consider it useful to mention at all? Do you think you’ve already included what she mentioned?
- bartread 6y ago
  Do you really think it's valuable for me to regurgitate an entire discussion that I've provided a link to (and which anyone can easily read) in my comment when what I'm actually trying to do is make a wider, but relatively pithy, point about journalistic integrity and the impact that the lack of it is having on our societies more than comment on Timnit's specific case? I will say that your comments are an almost perfect illustration of that point though.
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    Timnit claims she was fired, you’ve completely erased that part from the discussion and used it to prove a point about journalistic integrity. You provided a link to a massive discussion that has clearly not yet been able to piece through the details. When I asked you why you were so confident in your position that Timnit was clearly in the wrong and rightfully terminated because she didn’t comply with what Google told her to do, you decided that I lack journalistic integrity. Google, talking through Jeff Dean, claims that Timnit was unhappy with her situation and submitted a good faith resignation which Google accepted due to her not following their policies. Timnit claims that she was forced into a position where she had to issue her ultimatum, forcing her into a resignation. And we have claims from Google employees saying that the process she had was unusual and did not match a normal review. Isn’t the true journalistic malpractice ignoring this and claiming that any title that doesn’t match your view, which appears to be Google’s view of the situation is inaccurate?
threeseed 6y ago
I've only heard of unethical companies firing people immediately without honouring the notice period. It's definitely not common place and should not be encouraged except under severe circumstances e.g. violence, criminality etc.
- IanCal 6y ago
  Are they not being paid for their notice period? Usually the way this works is "gardening leave" where you're paid and are not supposed to come into work.
  - pseudalopex 6y ago
    Her manager said "effective today". That means no gardening leave.
    - onedognight 6y ago
      If she was cut off without “gardening leave”, then she was fired. It can then be true that she both quit (two weeks notice) and she was fired (no two weeks for you). I’d be surprised if the latter was true as it would be petty on Google’s part. More likely would be gardening without access which would still be gardening.
      - CydeWeys 6y ago
        It's really just academic and not germane to the larger overall discussion whether or not she got that one pay period's worth of money.
        sokoloff 6y ago
        IMO, it’s germane. “I quit. My last day will be sometime in late Dec.” “We’ll pay you and recognize your employment through that date, but you are relieved of all duties effective immediately” is quite different from “Nope; your job ends today.”

saagarjha 6y ago

…and? Did you not consider it useful to mention at all? Do you think you’ve already included what she mentioned?

bartread 6y ago
Do you really think it's valuable for me to regurgitate an entire discussion that I've provided a link to (and which anyone can easily read) in my comment when what I'm actually trying to do is make a wider, but relatively pithy, point about journalistic integrity and the impact that the lack of it is having on our societies more than comment on Timnit's specific case? I will say that your comments are an almost perfect illustration of that point though.
- saagarjha 6y ago
  Timnit claims she was fired, you’ve completely erased that part from the discussion and used it to prove a point about journalistic integrity. You provided a link to a massive discussion that has clearly not yet been able to piece through the details. When I asked you why you were so confident in your position that Timnit was clearly in the wrong and rightfully terminated because she didn’t comply with what Google told her to do, you decided that I lack journalistic integrity. Google, talking through Jeff Dean, claims that Timnit was unhappy with her situation and submitted a good faith resignation which Google accepted due to her not following their policies. Timnit claims that she was forced into a position where she had to issue her ultimatum, forcing her into a resignation. And we have claims from Google employees saying that the process she had was unusual and did not match a normal review. Isn’t the true journalistic malpractice ignoring this and claiming that any title that doesn’t match your view, which appears to be Google’s view of the situation is inaccurate?

threeseed 6y ago

I've only heard of unethical companies firing people immediately without honouring the notice period. It's definitely not common place and should not be encouraged except under severe circumstances e.g. violence, criminality etc.

IanCal 6y ago
Are they not being paid for their notice period? Usually the way this works is "gardening leave" where you're paid and are not supposed to come into work.
- pseudalopex 6y ago
  Her manager said "effective today". That means no gardening leave.
  - onedognight 6y ago
    If she was cut off without “gardening leave”, then she was fired. It can then be true that she both quit (two weeks notice) and she was fired (no two weeks for you). I’d be surprised if the latter was true as it would be petty on Google’s part. More likely would be gardening without access which would still be gardening.
    - CydeWeys 6y ago
      It's really just academic and not germane to the larger overall discussion whether or not she got that one pay period's worth of money.
      - sokoloff 6y ago
        IMO, it’s germane. “I quit. My last day will be sometime in late Dec.” “We’ll pay you and recognize your employment through that date, but you are relieved of all duties effective immediately” is quite different from “Nope; your job ends today.”