8 ms·

You can't give free housing to the unfortunate and at the same time increase rent on the workers. Workers need to see homeless people every day so they can feel

You can't give free housing to the unfortunate and at the same time increase rent on the workers. Workers need to see homeless people every day so they can feel better off and scared to end up like them. Everything else is bad for real estate investors.

DubiousPusher 6y ago
The motivations of moneyed interests are obvious. But the contempt the working and middle classes have for the poor is something I'll never understand. I've often been obliged to pay for something I've seen others acquire freely and I say good for them. I wouldn't exchange places with them for a moment. It seems the pettiest of all things to begrudge someone whose life is a disater, even in the rare cases when it is of their own making.
- ShamelessC 6y ago
  "...socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." (paraphrasing Steinbeck)
- syshum 6y ago
  >>But the contempt the working and middle classes have for the poor is something I'll never understand. Really? Should be fairly easy to understand, for a Middle Class Family that is living paycheck to paycheck, struggling to save for retirement, the kids collage fund, maybe help pay for a aging parent, save for home repair, and provide daily expenses seeing a good chunk of their earnings being stolen errr "taxed" away from them, money that they could use to provide for their own needs is a large part of it.
  - turbinerneiter 6y ago
    Taxation is only theft in the US, in the rest of the world you get something for it (health care, free education).
    - syshum 6y ago
      Taxation is always theft... If I steal your TV but clean your house, mow your yard, and perform other services "worth" same as your TV, I have still stolen your TV even though you got something for it.
- Aunche 6y ago
  There wouldn't be so much contempt for the homeless in California if they weren't allowed throw used needles or defecate everywhere.
  - DanBC 6y ago
    What alternative do they have? If we don't provide adequate public loos, or addiction treatment, or injection rooms, or mental health care, we should expect to experience the problems that are caused.
    - Aunche 6y ago
      I don't understand why it's so frowned upon in cities like LA to arrest someone for disposing used needles on the ground, and sending them to jail. I'm not going to pretend that it's doing the homeless any favors. However, the alternative of letting them poison themselves with drugs, and I don't see how that's any more humane. I think the real reason America fails the homeless is not a lack of empathy, but a "it's your fault because you touched it last" mentality. Housing first requires people who work with social workers. These people already draw a lot of ire when they fail or deemed as too harsh.
      - DubiousPusher 6y ago
        > I'm not going to pretend that it's doing the homeless any favors. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are simply ignorant of what jail or prison does to a person. Because I cannot see otherwise how you can possibly believe your right to a clean sidewalk should be enforced at the expense of another person's rights and freedom.
      - DanBC 6y ago
        Why would you spend thousands of dollars putting people in prison rather than just spending that cash on providing them treatment? Addicts, by definition, take drugs. They continue to take drugs when they know it harms them. Why do you think the potential risk of going to prison for a few days will have a deterrent effect when the very real health consequences they're currently going through isn't a deterrent?
- jelliclesfarm 6y ago
  Perhaps those who object have more to lose or have worked harder. Everyone has had different challenges that shape their perspective. We can never assume to understand another person’s motivation or understanding.
  - kelnos 6y ago
    We can't, but we can certainly judge that perspective to be counter-productive. I'm concerned about outcomes. Let's stop for a minute and assume that I'm an unfeeling, non-empathetic person who doesn't care about anyone but himself. Even then, I would advocate to allocate more money to homeless services, regardless of how that money is used, because doing so would benefit me: I don't want to see human feces on the sidewalk, or used syringes, or disease-carrying rats running around near tent encampments, or mentally-ill people screaming at me as I walk by. People who adopt the attitude that we shouldn't give people a generous safety net because they haven't done anything to "deserve" a handout are quite simply cutting off their noses to spite their faces. They're making their lives actively worse just to "teach a lesson" to those "undeserving" homeless people.
    - jelliclesfarm 6y ago
      ETA: when I say ‘you’, it’s not personal. Sometimes I type as stream of consciousness and it’s more a figure of speech. I am trying to fix this habit while commenting. This seemed to be a good time to clarify. Not sure I want to edit the entire comment and sentence structure. If you want clean streets, ban vagrancy and street living. You can’t save everyone. Savior complex is self serving. At some point, you have to cut damaging/damaged people lose. The sanctimonious savior complex is frankly nauseating ..especially when it achieves nothing but create noise that is pleasing only to the one practicing the virtue-signaling sounds. I attended al-anon meetings for three months to support a friend and continued going to them because I found it helpful to understand the effect addiction(of all kinds) has on the normal people around them. We have to be kind. Yes. But we are not our ‘brothers’ keepers’, as it were.. we need social boundaries when it comes to taking over the burden of those over whom/whose actions we have no control.
    - 6y ago

DubiousPusher 6y ago

The motivations of moneyed interests are obvious. But the contempt the working and middle classes have for the poor is something I'll never understand. I've often been obliged to pay for something I've seen others acquire freely and I say good for them. I wouldn't exchange places with them for a moment. It seems the pettiest of all things to begrudge someone whose life is a disater, even in the rare cases when it is of their own making.

ShamelessC 6y ago
"...socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." (paraphrasing Steinbeck)
syshum 6y ago
>>But the contempt the working and middle classes have for the poor is something I'll never understand. Really? Should be fairly easy to understand, for a Middle Class Family that is living paycheck to paycheck, struggling to save for retirement, the kids collage fund, maybe help pay for a aging parent, save for home repair, and provide daily expenses seeing a good chunk of their earnings being stolen errr "taxed" away from them, money that they could use to provide for their own needs is a large part of it.
- turbinerneiter 6y ago
  Taxation is only theft in the US, in the rest of the world you get something for it (health care, free education).
  - syshum 6y ago
    Taxation is always theft... If I steal your TV but clean your house, mow your yard, and perform other services "worth" same as your TV, I have still stolen your TV even though you got something for it.
Aunche 6y ago
There wouldn't be so much contempt for the homeless in California if they weren't allowed throw used needles or defecate everywhere.
- DanBC 6y ago
  What alternative do they have? If we don't provide adequate public loos, or addiction treatment, or injection rooms, or mental health care, we should expect to experience the problems that are caused.
  - Aunche 6y ago
    I don't understand why it's so frowned upon in cities like LA to arrest someone for disposing used needles on the ground, and sending them to jail. I'm not going to pretend that it's doing the homeless any favors. However, the alternative of letting them poison themselves with drugs, and I don't see how that's any more humane. I think the real reason America fails the homeless is not a lack of empathy, but a "it's your fault because you touched it last" mentality. Housing first requires people who work with social workers. These people already draw a lot of ire when they fail or deemed as too harsh.
    - DubiousPusher 6y ago
      > I'm not going to pretend that it's doing the homeless any favors. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are simply ignorant of what jail or prison does to a person. Because I cannot see otherwise how you can possibly believe your right to a clean sidewalk should be enforced at the expense of another person's rights and freedom.
    - DanBC 6y ago
      Why would you spend thousands of dollars putting people in prison rather than just spending that cash on providing them treatment? Addicts, by definition, take drugs. They continue to take drugs when they know it harms them. Why do you think the potential risk of going to prison for a few days will have a deterrent effect when the very real health consequences they're currently going through isn't a deterrent?
jelliclesfarm 6y ago
Perhaps those who object have more to lose or have worked harder. Everyone has had different challenges that shape their perspective. We can never assume to understand another person’s motivation or understanding.
- kelnos 6y ago
  We can't, but we can certainly judge that perspective to be counter-productive. I'm concerned about outcomes. Let's stop for a minute and assume that I'm an unfeeling, non-empathetic person who doesn't care about anyone but himself. Even then, I would advocate to allocate more money to homeless services, regardless of how that money is used, because doing so would benefit me: I don't want to see human feces on the sidewalk, or used syringes, or disease-carrying rats running around near tent encampments, or mentally-ill people screaming at me as I walk by. People who adopt the attitude that we shouldn't give people a generous safety net because they haven't done anything to "deserve" a handout are quite simply cutting off their noses to spite their faces. They're making their lives actively worse just to "teach a lesson" to those "undeserving" homeless people.
  - jelliclesfarm 6y ago
    ETA: when I say ‘you’, it’s not personal. Sometimes I type as stream of consciousness and it’s more a figure of speech. I am trying to fix this habit while commenting. This seemed to be a good time to clarify. Not sure I want to edit the entire comment and sentence structure. If you want clean streets, ban vagrancy and street living. You can’t save everyone. Savior complex is self serving. At some point, you have to cut damaging/damaged people lose. The sanctimonious savior complex is frankly nauseating ..especially when it achieves nothing but create noise that is pleasing only to the one practicing the virtue-signaling sounds. I attended al-anon meetings for three months to support a friend and continued going to them because I found it helpful to understand the effect addiction(of all kinds) has on the normal people around them. We have to be kind. Yes. But we are not our ‘brothers’ keepers’, as it were.. we need social boundaries when it comes to taking over the burden of those over whom/whose actions we have no control.
  - 6y ago