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> There are almost always deep-rooted issues that the addiction hides William S Burroughs wrote, at the end of "The Naked Lunch": "Statistically, the people w

> There are almost always deep-rooted issues that the addiction hides William S Burroughs wrote, at the end of "The Naked Lunch": "Statistically, the people who become addicted to morphine are those who have access to it: doctors, nurses, anyone in contact with black market sources. In Persia, where opium is sold without control in opium shops, 70 per cent of the adult population is addicted. So we should psychoanalyze several million Persians to find out what deep conflicts and anxieties have driven them to the use of opium? I think not." Similarly, historical opium addiction in China was largely a function of supply. I think there's a bit from column A, a bit from column B, and WSB's scoffing at the idea of "psychoanalyzing Persians" does seem a bit... dated (what a concept, that a large number of people might have anxieties and deep conflicts). And I whole-heartedly agree with you about the "health problem not a crime" issue. However, I often think about that remark of WSB's in connection with some of the more radical ideas about legalization (as opposed to decriminalization/depenalization).

Haga 6y ago
This mindset of prohibiting chemical escapism from a society is not a valid strategy. All it does is move the problem, out of sight, to different substances. In the end the use of this strategy is in itself Meta. A attempt to escape, the real, uncomfortable discussions. In this case the end of american, western, exceptionalism due to the constraints of resources and the transformation of the economic landscape by tech. Yes, those addicts are produced by the company's that stripped these people of a purpose and a place. I find it quite fitting that the Tech HQ city has a addict problem. Making the world a better place, for us, making the world a labor camp with no escape for them. Let's hope there is dharma.
saiya-jin 6y ago
Alcoholism was extremely common in the past from where I come from. High society acceptance as long as the person didn't wreak too much havoc. It has been idolized in folklore songs, books and stories for children. Just part of the life. Kids drank sometimes too. Fast forward today - access to alcohol is even better (apart from minors). Yet society doesn't spiral into alcoholic madness apart form few fringe individuals. Maybe education about the inevitable addiction is better? Or people are smarter than peasants 200 years ago? Or whole cultural mindset about getting wasted as part of being social in nearest pub shifted.
- jjeaff 6y ago
  Or maybe alcohol isn't quite as addictive and destructive as heroine and other opiates?
  - inglor_cz 6y ago
    That probably depends on the target population as well. Alcohol seems to be very destructive in Native American communities.
- glangdale 6y ago
  I'd hazard a guess that alcohol is a lot less addictive than heroin, although full-blown alcoholism and withdrawal is no joke. I think we also have a lot of customs around alcohol to mitigate the level and constancy of drinking required to get addicted. Lots of jokes about "it's 5pm somewhere" or "the sun is over the yard arm", "no drinking on a school night", etc. I think there are generally enough taboos around day drinking or being constantly drunk that most people are nudged away from veering into physical addiction.
stefantalpalaru 6y ago
> In Persia, where opium is sold without control in opium shops, 70 per cent of the adult population is addicted. «One of the first scientific descriptions of opium use in Iran was written by Dr. Jacob Eduard Polak (1818–1891), a Jewish Austrian physician who worked in Iran between 1851 and 1860 (1) among teachers of the first Iranian medical school. His detailed description of Iran and Iranians was published as a book with the original title “Persien, das land und seine bewohner.” In this book he wrote: “hashish-cannabis is used by some ethnic groups but opium use is a very popular habit and unlike cannabis it has no negative social stigma or shame for users. It is not forbidden and every Iranian who can afford its cost uses it daily.”» - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4479403/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4479403/ So it was social stigma, not availability that made the difference.
rukuu001 6y ago
I think it’s very true that availability and norms will have a lot to do with drug use, and heroin often doesn’t give a second chance to people who are experimenting. However the with regard to the idea of ‘deep seated issues’ affecting addiction, I believe this is also true. We have communities here that provide the opportunity for perfect control of substances - they’re remote and access to them is strictly controlled. There was widespread alcohol addiction in these places. So alcohol was banned, and these places became ‘dry’ communities. Lacking alcohol, the people turned to inhaling petrol fumes, which created a large social problem. Eventually, an ‘un-sniffable’ petrol was created to solve this problem. Then the people turned to paint and glue. It’s recognized that the people in those communities have suffered a deep, inter-generational trauma, which is what drives people to seek ‘numbing’ relief from substances. However, it’s the belief that reducing availability of substances will solve substance abuse that’s kept the fundamental problems these people have, from being addressed.
- monoideism 6y ago
  > It’s recognized that the people in those communities have suffered a deep, inter-generational trauma, Really? What about the Jewish people, who have been subjected to extremely high levels of inter-generational trauma. Yet they don't fall prey to particularly high levels of alcoholism or drug addiction. Sure, current poverty can predispose some to addiction, but the idea of "inter-generational trauma" being a massive risk factor is unproven, to say the least.
- glangdale 6y ago
  I think you're taking the wrong point away, which is that the causal implication here runs from "wide availability of a substance -> addiction to that substance". It doesn't say anything about whether a traumatized group will or won't take to substances; it just denies that all addiction is the result of trauma. The other open question here - I assume you're referring to remote Indigenous communities in Australia - is whether people use substances strictly out of trauma or also out of boredom. The degree to which Indigenous lives are rendered both traumatic but also incredibly boring is shocking. If you've gotten a low quality education, don't have a job and your traditional way of life is no longer viable (it's quite likely you haven't been taught it), how are you going to pass the time?

Haga 6y ago

This mindset of prohibiting chemical escapism from a society is not a valid strategy. All it does is move the problem, out of sight, to different substances. In the end the use of this strategy is in itself Meta. A attempt to escape, the real, uncomfortable discussions. In this case the end of american, western, exceptionalism due to the constraints of resources and the transformation of the economic landscape by tech. Yes, those addicts are produced by the company's that stripped these people of a purpose and a place. I find it quite fitting that the Tech HQ city has a addict problem. Making the world a better place, for us, making the world a labor camp with no escape for them. Let's hope there is dharma.

saiya-jin 6y ago

Alcoholism was extremely common in the past from where I come from. High society acceptance as long as the person didn't wreak too much havoc. It has been idolized in folklore songs, books and stories for children. Just part of the life. Kids drank sometimes too. Fast forward today - access to alcohol is even better (apart from minors). Yet society doesn't spiral into alcoholic madness apart form few fringe individuals. Maybe education about the inevitable addiction is better? Or people are smarter than peasants 200 years ago? Or whole cultural mindset about getting wasted as part of being social in nearest pub shifted.

jjeaff 6y ago
Or maybe alcohol isn't quite as addictive and destructive as heroine and other opiates?
- inglor_cz 6y ago
  That probably depends on the target population as well. Alcohol seems to be very destructive in Native American communities.
glangdale 6y ago
I'd hazard a guess that alcohol is a lot less addictive than heroin, although full-blown alcoholism and withdrawal is no joke. I think we also have a lot of customs around alcohol to mitigate the level and constancy of drinking required to get addicted. Lots of jokes about "it's 5pm somewhere" or "the sun is over the yard arm", "no drinking on a school night", etc. I think there are generally enough taboos around day drinking or being constantly drunk that most people are nudged away from veering into physical addiction.

stefantalpalaru 6y ago

> In Persia, where opium is sold without control in opium shops, 70 per cent of the adult population is addicted. «One of the first scientific descriptions of opium use in Iran was written by Dr. Jacob Eduard Polak (1818–1891), a Jewish Austrian physician who worked in Iran between 1851 and 1860 (1) among teachers of the first Iranian medical school. His detailed description of Iran and Iranians was published as a book with the original title “Persien, das land und seine bewohner.” In this book he wrote: “hashish-cannabis is used by some ethnic groups but opium use is a very popular habit and unlike cannabis it has no negative social stigma or shame for users. It is not forbidden and every Iranian who can afford its cost uses it daily.”» - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4479403/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4479403/ So it was social stigma, not availability that made the difference.

rukuu001 6y ago

I think it’s very true that availability and norms will have a lot to do with drug use, and heroin often doesn’t give a second chance to people who are experimenting. However the with regard to the idea of ‘deep seated issues’ affecting addiction, I believe this is also true. We have communities here that provide the opportunity for perfect control of substances - they’re remote and access to them is strictly controlled. There was widespread alcohol addiction in these places. So alcohol was banned, and these places became ‘dry’ communities. Lacking alcohol, the people turned to inhaling petrol fumes, which created a large social problem. Eventually, an ‘un-sniffable’ petrol was created to solve this problem. Then the people turned to paint and glue. It’s recognized that the people in those communities have suffered a deep, inter-generational trauma, which is what drives people to seek ‘numbing’ relief from substances. However, it’s the belief that reducing availability of substances will solve substance abuse that’s kept the fundamental problems these people have, from being addressed.

monoideism 6y ago
> It’s recognized that the people in those communities have suffered a deep, inter-generational trauma, Really? What about the Jewish people, who have been subjected to extremely high levels of inter-generational trauma. Yet they don't fall prey to particularly high levels of alcoholism or drug addiction. Sure, current poverty can predispose some to addiction, but the idea of "inter-generational trauma" being a massive risk factor is unproven, to say the least.
glangdale 6y ago
I think you're taking the wrong point away, which is that the causal implication here runs from "wide availability of a substance -> addiction to that substance". It doesn't say anything about whether a traumatized group will or won't take to substances; it just denies that all addiction is the result of trauma. The other open question here - I assume you're referring to remote Indigenous communities in Australia - is whether people use substances strictly out of trauma or also out of boredom. The degree to which Indigenous lives are rendered both traumatic but also incredibly boring is shocking. If you've gotten a low quality education, don't have a job and your traditional way of life is no longer viable (it's quite likely you haven't been taught it), how are you going to pass the time?