6 ms·

Here in Germany we have homeless people, and Romania wouldn't come to mind as a place where they don't. More likely I would expect people from Romania to be hom

Here in Germany we have homeless people, and Romania wouldn't come to mind as a place where they don't. More likely I would expect people from Romania to be homeless in Germany. I think some homeless here are (possibly illegal) immigrants who don't have access to the same social security measures. But there are also homeless Germans, despite of safety nets existing in theory. I think it is often associated with mental illness and addiction, making it difficult for people to master the bureaucracy to get access to social services.

andi999 6y ago
At least the homelessness you see on the street in Romania is much much less. I went a few times for business there and I saw zero. (More old people peddling stuff at the street though than germany)
jacobush 6y ago
In Sweden the homeless increased when a lot of dedicated mental health institutions were closed.
nicbou 6y ago
I vaguely remember a police report that said that a very large number of Berlin's homeless are Polish. I vividly remember that just across the Romanian border, there are numerous Roma villages that look quite like Skid Row. I can't compare European homelessness to its American variant, but I can say it certainly exists. Safety nets have holes in them, particularly for those who aren't in the system. Freelancers are not that well-protected either.
kstenerud 6y ago
I've lived and worked in many different countries (including America and Germany), and there seem to be two main causes of homelessness: economic hardship and mental illness. In Germany, I've only seen homelessness due to mental illness, because the bureaucracy in the social programs causes too much friction for them to use it with decent success. There are organizations that help people navigate the mazes and paperwork, but it's still too much friction. In America, it's both, but primarily economic. The levels of economic inequality in America is something I'd only seen in third world countries before. TBH I'm surprised at how low the corruption level in government jobs is given how dire peoples circumstances have become. It is much worse than in other first world countries, but not as bad as in places like Mexico or India. The higher the inequality, the more the proportion pushed towards mental illness in the homeless people living there. San Francisco was particularly bleak... In Japan, it's also primarily economic, but I suspect that's mainly due to their tendency to hide mental illness away since it's a source of shame. The "tent cities" in the parks were a sight to behold...
- timeeater 6y ago
  I think in places in San Francisco, it might not just be "inequality", but also homeless people flocking to places with spare money and mild climate. Why else would you choose to be homeless in one of the most expensive places on earth?
  - cmrx64 6y ago
    https://www.kqed.org/news/11721460/why-do-these-4-myths-about-homelessness-persist https://www.kqed.org/news/11721460/why-do-these-4-myths-abou... this myth gets repeated and has no basis in reality. people in every city that offer any kind of service for the poor think that this attracts poor people. i guess it’s easier to believe that people are choosing to cheat society than society failed to provide for them
    - timeeater 6y ago
      I said nothing about "choosing to cheat society". Perhaps check your own biases? I also didn't say anything about "offering services". From the charts in your article it still doesn't seem unlikely that many homeless people migrated there for the jobs, a ka money - 30% in the "1 to 4 years" bracket, 48% if you go to "up to 9 years". In my city (Berlin) it certainly seems to be the case that it is often immigrants who end up homeless, presumably because the social net for citizens doesn't fully apply to them.
  - tchaffee 6y ago
    > choose to be homeless... That's a poor choice of words that betrays your lack of knowledge on the subject. Instead of guesses about what is happening backed up with with "why else" reasoning, why not just do a little research on your own first? Or at least start with a question instead of a claim?
    - timeeater 6y ago
      I literally asked a question. And I meant choose San Francisco as the place to be homeless in, not choosing homelessness. If you would apply the principle of charity, you would have been able to read my comment correctly.
msiemens 6y ago
I've talked to a couple of homeless people in a large city in Germany and the impression I seems to largely match your assertion. Most people I talked to who are homeless were from eastern Europe who tried to make a better living in Germany but failed. There were also some with drug or alcohol problems or had some sort of mental issues. But there was also a man who was bullied out of the company where he had worked for 21 years. I guess he didn't see homelessness coming for him. Also there was an older woman who lived in her car because she was forced out of the apartment where she lived for her whole life and she refused to accept moving to a different apartment. She had a reputable job, it was after she retired that all these issues came up. So I guess that even here there is no absolute guarantee that one wouldn't end up homeless.
rurban 6y ago
I've worked for an organization helping homeless. We eg organized a worldwide soccer tournament https://homelessworldcup.org/ https://homelessworldcup.org/ and are selling a news paper distributed by homeless people. Most homeless in western european countries come either from losing their job and having drug problems, or losing their wifes and thereby homes. The many eastern homeless cross the borders because they can live much better by begging on the streets here than in the east. But there are plenty of homeless, squatters there also. Eg nost of the abandoned village houses in the east were subsequently squatted by gypsies. The city center in Bucuresti is also full of homeless. When writing a book about homeless over the world in the US and Russia, the problems were the same, just that in the USA there's a homeless shipping industry to get them out of the city, but they still prefer the warm south where it's easy to survive. Who wouldn't. Even the rich old folks prefer Florida over NY. Just politicians and police are more inhuman there.
- biztos 6y ago
  What’s the point, from your point of view, of the homeless newspapers? To me it’s always seemed like mostly a way to regulate begging, and also to let both parties pretend it isn’t begging. And in the best case maybe it’s therapeutic for people to write for them. But it doesn’t seem like anyone reads these, and I wonder, are the other effects worth the cost / effort?
  - rurban 6y ago
    It's the best way to get them out of homelessness. It's not begging at all. They have to buy all the papers they are distributing in advance. It's a financial risk. But a good income, if you've got a good location.

andi999 6y ago

At least the homelessness you see on the street in Romania is much much less. I went a few times for business there and I saw zero. (More old people peddling stuff at the street though than germany)

jacobush 6y ago

In Sweden the homeless increased when a lot of dedicated mental health institutions were closed.

nicbou 6y ago

I vaguely remember a police report that said that a very large number of Berlin's homeless are Polish. I vividly remember that just across the Romanian border, there are numerous Roma villages that look quite like Skid Row. I can't compare European homelessness to its American variant, but I can say it certainly exists. Safety nets have holes in them, particularly for those who aren't in the system. Freelancers are not that well-protected either.

kstenerud 6y ago

I've lived and worked in many different countries (including America and Germany), and there seem to be two main causes of homelessness: economic hardship and mental illness. In Germany, I've only seen homelessness due to mental illness, because the bureaucracy in the social programs causes too much friction for them to use it with decent success. There are organizations that help people navigate the mazes and paperwork, but it's still too much friction. In America, it's both, but primarily economic. The levels of economic inequality in America is something I'd only seen in third world countries before. TBH I'm surprised at how low the corruption level in government jobs is given how dire peoples circumstances have become. It is much worse than in other first world countries, but not as bad as in places like Mexico or India. The higher the inequality, the more the proportion pushed towards mental illness in the homeless people living there. San Francisco was particularly bleak... In Japan, it's also primarily economic, but I suspect that's mainly due to their tendency to hide mental illness away since it's a source of shame. The "tent cities" in the parks were a sight to behold...

timeeater 6y ago
I think in places in San Francisco, it might not just be "inequality", but also homeless people flocking to places with spare money and mild climate. Why else would you choose to be homeless in one of the most expensive places on earth?
- cmrx64 6y ago
  https://www.kqed.org/news/11721460/why-do-these-4-myths-about-homelessness-persist https://www.kqed.org/news/11721460/why-do-these-4-myths-abou... this myth gets repeated and has no basis in reality. people in every city that offer any kind of service for the poor think that this attracts poor people. i guess it’s easier to believe that people are choosing to cheat society than society failed to provide for them
  - timeeater 6y ago
    I said nothing about "choosing to cheat society". Perhaps check your own biases? I also didn't say anything about "offering services". From the charts in your article it still doesn't seem unlikely that many homeless people migrated there for the jobs, a ka money - 30% in the "1 to 4 years" bracket, 48% if you go to "up to 9 years". In my city (Berlin) it certainly seems to be the case that it is often immigrants who end up homeless, presumably because the social net for citizens doesn't fully apply to them.
- tchaffee 6y ago
  > choose to be homeless... That's a poor choice of words that betrays your lack of knowledge on the subject. Instead of guesses about what is happening backed up with with "why else" reasoning, why not just do a little research on your own first? Or at least start with a question instead of a claim?
  - timeeater 6y ago
    I literally asked a question. And I meant choose San Francisco as the place to be homeless in, not choosing homelessness. If you would apply the principle of charity, you would have been able to read my comment correctly.

msiemens 6y ago

I've talked to a couple of homeless people in a large city in Germany and the impression I seems to largely match your assertion. Most people I talked to who are homeless were from eastern Europe who tried to make a better living in Germany but failed. There were also some with drug or alcohol problems or had some sort of mental issues. But there was also a man who was bullied out of the company where he had worked for 21 years. I guess he didn't see homelessness coming for him. Also there was an older woman who lived in her car because she was forced out of the apartment where she lived for her whole life and she refused to accept moving to a different apartment. She had a reputable job, it was after she retired that all these issues came up. So I guess that even here there is no absolute guarantee that one wouldn't end up homeless.

rurban 6y ago

I've worked for an organization helping homeless. We eg organized a worldwide soccer tournament https://homelessworldcup.org/ https://homelessworldcup.org/ and are selling a news paper distributed by homeless people. Most homeless in western european countries come either from losing their job and having drug problems, or losing their wifes and thereby homes. The many eastern homeless cross the borders because they can live much better by begging on the streets here than in the east. But there are plenty of homeless, squatters there also. Eg nost of the abandoned village houses in the east were subsequently squatted by gypsies. The city center in Bucuresti is also full of homeless. When writing a book about homeless over the world in the US and Russia, the problems were the same, just that in the USA there's a homeless shipping industry to get them out of the city, but they still prefer the warm south where it's easy to survive. Who wouldn't. Even the rich old folks prefer Florida over NY. Just politicians and police are more inhuman there.

biztos 6y ago
What’s the point, from your point of view, of the homeless newspapers? To me it’s always seemed like mostly a way to regulate begging, and also to let both parties pretend it isn’t begging. And in the best case maybe it’s therapeutic for people to write for them. But it doesn’t seem like anyone reads these, and I wonder, are the other effects worth the cost / effort?
- rurban 6y ago
  It's the best way to get them out of homelessness. It's not begging at all. They have to buy all the papers they are distributing in advance. It's a financial risk. But a good income, if you've got a good location.