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In a different thread someone recommended charging a small fee for new accounts to prevent abuse. Dang responded that its important for everyone to be able to p
by phaus 6y ago
In a different thread someone recommended charging a small fee for new accounts to prevent abuse. Dang responded that its important for everyone to be able to participate. Between his response and this article I reflected quite a bit about the nine years I have spent on this site, the various weird and mostly wonderful interactions I've had with the community, and the way it has shaped my career and therefore my life.
On this site I have received legitimately profound and sometimes life changing advice and insights from a wider variety of people than I have interacted with in any other format: schizophrenics, the homeless, people from a wide variety of cultures (wealthy and impoverished), and industry rock stars.
There have been disagreements and occasionally arguments. Some of them have made me a little more aware of my own bubble and allowed me to recognize aspects of my world view that were ignorant or that at least failed to consider different points of view.
Much of this was possible because its a place that values the participation of everyone. Articles like this excellent piece of writing shine a light on how important it is.
Edit: I figured some shadow banned people would respond. I was actually talking about at least one person that ended up getting permanently banned that happened to be an influential person to me. Part of what makes this community great is that while we can have heated disagreements we largely do it more civilly than many other online communities. While its an accurate assessment that Hacker News has a liberal bias there are lots of conservatives here that freely share their opinions civilly. They might feel outnumbered and they might sometimes be unjustly downvoted by people that don't understand what a downvote button should be used for, but they are largely able to participate because they keep it civil. I'm pretty politically moderate myself. By no stretch of the imagination could I be considered a "SJW" or a person with a typical San Francisco political outlook (only mentioning these phrases because that was what was alleged to be the only type of person that can exist here). Out of curiosity I took a look at jrcii's account and they were indeed needlessly toxic on a large number of occasions before being banned and yet was still told if they email the admin and promise to be civil they can be reinstated. Instead of taking them up they decided be even less civil. A community can be open to everyone and still ban people that are not acting in good faith.
- jrcii 6y ago“Values the participation of everyone” that’s why I’ve been shadowbanned for YEARS because I once said “oriental isn’t an offensive term” even though there’s an entire NYT article BY AN ASIAN PERSON making the same point. The participation of everyone who wholly embraces far-left San Francisco work politics. If not, you’re silenced. Fuck dang and this website.
- simonebrunozzi 6y agoI wholeheartedly agree with you. I am so grateful that HN exists. As much as I try to contribute and offer my thoughts and views, I certainly get so much more from it than I could possibly give.
- timeeater 6y agoUnfortunately it is not true in general that the reason accounts are being banned is incivility. Censorship of unwanted opinions is very much real on this site.
- phaus 6y agoIts possible that it happens, but from my admittedly limited anecdotal experience from seeing a half dozen or so people claim that they were banned for no reason and then taking a look at their comment history, they were absolutely banned for a reason. Do you have an example of someone being banned simply because they shared an unpopular opinion? Also "not true in general" implies that you seem to think that its a widespread problem and banning people simply for having an alternative opinion is one of the more common reasons people are banned. On HN that is something I find hard to believe.
- timeeater 6y agoI have been banned several times, and I am not in the habit of calling people names. At most I may call some argument "stupid". Mostly when it comes to criticizing socialism or feminism, it doesn't last long. I just tried to look up one of the old accounts where dang banned me and we even had an email discussion about it. But as the account is banned, I can not look up the comments I wrote anymore. Edit: I think I remember, often the argument is that "politics are not welcome on HN". But there are political topics on HN all the time (women in tech, worker unions at Amazon, and so on and so on). I never bring them up, but when they emerge, I sometimes join the discussion. That's when I get banned for "talking politics", even though I only comment on other people's (socialist) politics. So it is not usually about "civility", it is pretense for censoring unwanted opinions.
- kaitai 6y agoBut that's the thing -- I'm a woman in tech. How am I political? I'm just a sack of cells like you. Are you a political topic? To get back to the parent posters, that's why I keep coming back to HN despite the unfortunately-now-expected friction of, well, comments like the one above me. (And timeeater, to be really clear, I don't care your position on feminism or socialism. The friction is that you label me talking a "political topic".) The conversation here is overall good enough to outweigh that, and I have learned a lot from conservatives/Julia programmers/people who've experienced homelessness/infosec people/homebrewers on HN.