5 ms·

"I've been to my high school reunions, and the truth is, none of them turned out to be anything remarkable." 80% of Asian kids in America go on to higher (+12)

"I've been to my high school reunions, and the truth is, none of them turned out to be anything remarkable." 80% of Asian kids in America go on to higher (+12) education. 53% degree attainment (other races are less than 30%). Comprising less than 10% of the population, Asian populations at the Ivy League are ~25%+ (nearly or more than 30% at Stanford and MIT). Asians in America make more on average than all other races. Asians seem to be attaining alot in a country where they are less than 10% of the population and objective metrics of achievement are even possible. There could be something about the "bamboo ceiling", but Asians are doing objectively better, on average, than the average white, black, or hispanic person.

sliverstorm 15y ago
Yea, if you measure success in terms of going to Ivy League schools. Hate to break it to you though, attending an Ivy League does not equate to success in life, nor does it always result in success. The whole point of the article is, what happens AFTER they get that degree?
- muhfuhkuh 15y ago
  I answered that, they earn more money on average than whites, blacks, and hispanics. What other markers are there "in life" than earning money to measure success? It's not like they're just adrift in an ocean of nothingness delivering lunches, whipping lattes and mowing the corporate office lawn. They are achieving more in academics and cash than other races. What's more to "success in life" than education and cash? I guess it's not the achievement, it's the expectation. Asians achieve more, yet are looked upon as still inferior by others arbitrarily moving the yardstick from "make more money" to "be CEO". So, when Asians do get there (either by founding their own companies or moving into it) it'll be "yeah, but can they dunk a basket or sing like Britney". I think I detect a higher expectation from simply being born a certain way. I guess simply being Asian is alot to live up to.
  - sliverstorm 15y ago
    I think it is only fair to warn you, you should probably not pursue a degree in mind-reading. You are not very good at it. What actually happened was my eyes missed "Asians in America make more on average than all other races", so what I read was a comment purely about academic successes equating to life success. Anyway, I think you need to quantify just how much more, on average, if you are going to use that as the metric that proves the academic success really brings success in life.
    - muhfuhkuh 15y ago
      "Anyway, I think you need to quantify just how much more, on average" As of 2007 census numbers, $80000 (median) in Asian households vs $65000, $41000, and $42000 in White, Black, and Hispanic households respectively.
  - uniclaude 15y ago
    > What other markers are there "in life" than earning money to measure success? With all due respect, I sincerely hope you are not serious. Using your metrics, Hassanal Bolkiah would be more successful than Albert Einstein. Talking about expectation, I would not expect someone with 1000+ karma to be so narrow-minded.
- potatolicious 15y ago
  Pretty simple really. Most start off more highly paid than most - but the pay difference drops off over time. Most lead unassuming, mundane existences. A large portion live with the nagging dissatisfaction that they struggled so much harder than everyone else, sacrificed so much more, and yet somehow the payoff doesn't seem commensurate. They were at the top end of the distribution all their life, but now practically define normality. Most will look around them and realize it could be much worse - they could be running a laundromat. They will then quietly accept their mundane, normal, and honestly, somewhat boring existence in good grace. Some cannot get over the fact that they threw their childhood, adolescence, and prime years away for a shot at mediocrity. Some have become miserable in this process - this goes double for those who had a real passion for something off the beaten Asian track (art, literature, music, etc). Some of these people will eventually crack and throw it all away to pursue what they actually wanted to do. If they fail, they will be used as examples on why straying from The Path(tm) is unwise. If they succeed, they will be praised and looked upon in admiration as a triumphant success of the immigrant community. They will, ironically, be used as examples of how It Works(tm) whenever this exact issue comes up in conversation.
  - muhfuhkuh 15y ago
    "They will then quietly accept their mundane, normal, and honestly, somewhat boring existence in good grace." Wow, that is some kind of assumption. Wishful thinking, or perhaps projecting? "Some have become miserable in this process - this goes double for those who had a real passion for something off the beaten Asian track (art, literature, music, etc). Some of these people will eventually crack and throw it all away to pursue what they actually wanted to do." Just as a data point apropos of nothing, every single winning team in the television show "America's best dance crew" has either been exclusively or overwhelmingly Asian. That's after 5 seasons. So, I think you might be conflating the "typical chinese tiger child" with all Asian/East Asian parents. You may need to head to the West Coast to see how much culturally different the kids (and their parents) are there.
    - potatolicious 15y ago
      Surprise, I grew up on the West Coast. Tiger kids are tiger kids - there isn't a huge gradient from coast to coast. > "Wishful thinking, or perhaps projecting?" On the contrary, I'd be delighted if more Asians broke the mold and had the resolve and determination to buck expectations. It is difficult, and most will never go through with it, but I suspect most will think about it, a lot. > "every single winning team in the television show "America's best dance crew" has either been exclusively or overwhelmingly Asian. That's after 5 seasons." That fact alone is pointless without knowing how many Asian dance crews have entered. Like I said, most will never buck the trend and go against the grain - especially in such a dramatic way as pursuing dance and popular music. Maybe Asians would win more if more of them pursued this - or maybe they won't. It's all supposition.
ericz 15y ago
"Asian populations at the Ivy League are ~25%+ (nearly or more than 30% at Stanford and MIT)" This is simply not correct. If you find yourself saying something like "nearly or more than" after a number with as little precision as 30%, then please don't use it as evidence
- brg 15y ago
  He has two numbers, and each statement refers to the other. http://tech.mit.edu/V130/N14/admissions.html http://tech.mit.edu/V130/N14/admissions.html The accepted class is fifty three percent male and forty seven percent female. The racial breakdown for those who listed it is thirty six percent Caucasian, thirty percent Asian, fourteen percent Hispanic, nine percent African-American. Seven percent admitted are international students, who faced a three percent admit rate.

sliverstorm 15y ago

Yea, if you measure success in terms of going to Ivy League schools. Hate to break it to you though, attending an Ivy League does not equate to success in life, nor does it always result in success. The whole point of the article is, what happens AFTER they get that degree?

muhfuhkuh 15y ago
I answered that, they earn more money on average than whites, blacks, and hispanics. What other markers are there "in life" than earning money to measure success? It's not like they're just adrift in an ocean of nothingness delivering lunches, whipping lattes and mowing the corporate office lawn. They are achieving more in academics and cash than other races. What's more to "success in life" than education and cash? I guess it's not the achievement, it's the expectation. Asians achieve more, yet are looked upon as still inferior by others arbitrarily moving the yardstick from "make more money" to "be CEO". So, when Asians do get there (either by founding their own companies or moving into it) it'll be "yeah, but can they dunk a basket or sing like Britney". I think I detect a higher expectation from simply being born a certain way. I guess simply being Asian is alot to live up to.
- sliverstorm 15y ago
  I think it is only fair to warn you, you should probably not pursue a degree in mind-reading. You are not very good at it. What actually happened was my eyes missed "Asians in America make more on average than all other races", so what I read was a comment purely about academic successes equating to life success. Anyway, I think you need to quantify just how much more, on average, if you are going to use that as the metric that proves the academic success really brings success in life.
  - muhfuhkuh 15y ago
    "Anyway, I think you need to quantify just how much more, on average" As of 2007 census numbers, $80000 (median) in Asian households vs $65000, $41000, and $42000 in White, Black, and Hispanic households respectively.
- uniclaude 15y ago
  > What other markers are there "in life" than earning money to measure success? With all due respect, I sincerely hope you are not serious. Using your metrics, Hassanal Bolkiah would be more successful than Albert Einstein. Talking about expectation, I would not expect someone with 1000+ karma to be so narrow-minded.
potatolicious 15y ago
Pretty simple really. Most start off more highly paid than most - but the pay difference drops off over time. Most lead unassuming, mundane existences. A large portion live with the nagging dissatisfaction that they struggled so much harder than everyone else, sacrificed so much more, and yet somehow the payoff doesn't seem commensurate. They were at the top end of the distribution all their life, but now practically define normality. Most will look around them and realize it could be much worse - they could be running a laundromat. They will then quietly accept their mundane, normal, and honestly, somewhat boring existence in good grace. Some cannot get over the fact that they threw their childhood, adolescence, and prime years away for a shot at mediocrity. Some have become miserable in this process - this goes double for those who had a real passion for something off the beaten Asian track (art, literature, music, etc). Some of these people will eventually crack and throw it all away to pursue what they actually wanted to do. If they fail, they will be used as examples on why straying from The Path(tm) is unwise. If they succeed, they will be praised and looked upon in admiration as a triumphant success of the immigrant community. They will, ironically, be used as examples of how It Works(tm) whenever this exact issue comes up in conversation.
- muhfuhkuh 15y ago
  "They will then quietly accept their mundane, normal, and honestly, somewhat boring existence in good grace." Wow, that is some kind of assumption. Wishful thinking, or perhaps projecting? "Some have become miserable in this process - this goes double for those who had a real passion for something off the beaten Asian track (art, literature, music, etc). Some of these people will eventually crack and throw it all away to pursue what they actually wanted to do." Just as a data point apropos of nothing, every single winning team in the television show "America's best dance crew" has either been exclusively or overwhelmingly Asian. That's after 5 seasons. So, I think you might be conflating the "typical chinese tiger child" with all Asian/East Asian parents. You may need to head to the West Coast to see how much culturally different the kids (and their parents) are there.
  - potatolicious 15y ago
    Surprise, I grew up on the West Coast. Tiger kids are tiger kids - there isn't a huge gradient from coast to coast. > "Wishful thinking, or perhaps projecting?" On the contrary, I'd be delighted if more Asians broke the mold and had the resolve and determination to buck expectations. It is difficult, and most will never go through with it, but I suspect most will think about it, a lot. > "every single winning team in the television show "America's best dance crew" has either been exclusively or overwhelmingly Asian. That's after 5 seasons." That fact alone is pointless without knowing how many Asian dance crews have entered. Like I said, most will never buck the trend and go against the grain - especially in such a dramatic way as pursuing dance and popular music. Maybe Asians would win more if more of them pursued this - or maybe they won't. It's all supposition.

ericz 15y ago

"Asian populations at the Ivy League are ~25%+ (nearly or more than 30% at Stanford and MIT)" This is simply not correct. If you find yourself saying something like "nearly or more than" after a number with as little precision as 30%, then please don't use it as evidence

brg 15y ago
He has two numbers, and each statement refers to the other. http://tech.mit.edu/V130/N14/admissions.html http://tech.mit.edu/V130/N14/admissions.html The accepted class is fifty three percent male and forty seven percent female. The racial breakdown for those who listed it is thirty six percent Caucasian, thirty percent Asian, fourteen percent Hispanic, nine percent African-American. Seven percent admitted are international students, who faced a three percent admit rate.