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Critical race/gender theory is all about power dynamics permeating every interaction. You might think that's exhausting, I certainly do, but that's what we're

Critical race/gender theory is all about power dynamics permeating every interaction. You might think that's exhausting, I certainly do, but that's what we're dealing with here.

dvtrn 6y ago
You might think that's exhausting, I certainly do Why? Is there something about CRT that threatens your means and way of living, or is it forcing a type of introspection about what minorities have and continue to go through in various forms and machinations you'd rather not entertain?
- free_rms 6y ago
  This right here. The veiled accusation and attempt to put me on the back foot in a power dynamics debate. That's what I find exhausting. Anyways I was just explaining to OP that the situation was already about that stuff before any response was considered.
  - dvtrn 6y ago
    It wasn't veiled at all, it was a bald-faced ask, why dodge it? If the veiled accusations that some people utilize in the name of CRT is bothersome, why wouldn't you call THAT out from the very start? That tactic is not a problem inherent to CRT, that tactic is a problem with how people deploy and weaponize CRT. In the absence of anything else, yes, people are going to make assumptions.
    - free_rms 6y ago
      But you're doing the thing. The tactic that you agree is bothersome. Edit: I agree that one could incorporate some CRT into their worldview without becoming insufferable, in fact I think lots of normal people have without calling it that. That said, there are a lot of true believers out there, that's who I was talking about.
      - dvtrn 6y ago
        okay, well since the comment I initially replied to has been edited entirely post hoc to represent an entirely different tenor than what you originally replied with, I guess I need to edit mine as well: No, I'm not doing that right now, I am trying to understand your framing of CRT and where your issues lie with it. It would seem those issues lie with how certain people argue CRT, not CRT itself. Thank you for clarifying that.
        free_rms 6y ago
        I guess my beef is, how come everything is game for criticism EXCEPT the critical theorists? Why can't we analyze their power incentives as well?
        dvtrn 6y ago
        What stands in your way other than being faced with possible objections to, and responses in kind to whatever your critiques may be? Objections and responses that-I would boldly say-are not stopping you from making said critiques, or rather, they hold no enforceable power that precludes you or anyone from making rebuttals of your own. They are just that, objections and responses. Which you are free to entertain or not, attempt to unpack and understand or not, respond to with better critiques, objections, observations and rebuttals of your own...or not. But you're not being prevented from making them by anyone or anything short of I suppose committing some sort of crime in order to make that point (that's just an extreme example to stretch the metaphor). This is the form and function of debate, it is a crucible that boils away impurities of all manner and dialect (for anyone who may be thinking they've heard this one before, yes, I absolutely stole this from an episode of Star Trek). If you feel you are being stopped from doing any of this, might I ask why and how you have been completely prevented and kept from expressing yourself?
        free_rms 6y ago
        Alright, here's my substantive criticism of how CRT affects various groups in practice (not doxxing my membership in any of these groups): Elite coastal white: Absolutely not threatened. Beneficiary of the system and knows how to navigate all of the social codes. Less elite or poor white: Takes the bullet that was aimed at the elite white. Asian: Scores way too high on tests for their % of the population and this is a problem for a worldview that cares about what % of college slots go to which races Professional class black or latin: Does great, huge beneficiary of CRT activism Working class black or latin: Invisible and accidentally hurt despite good intentions. CRT proponents tried to pass a referendum legalizing racial discrimination in hiring in California this year, which would have helped professional class POC and probably hurt this class. Fortunately it failed. EDIT: I removed some cattiness above. Not trying to pull the rug out from under you but I'm rate-limited and wanted to focus on my actual points. I don't think I'm a caricature of 'unwoke' person who never thought about or dealt with these things before.
- s4n1ty 6y ago
  If you're unfamiliar with criticisms of critical race theory then you might find this useful: https://newdiscourses.com/2020/06/reasons-critical-race-theory-terrible-dealing-racism/ https://newdiscourses.com/2020/06/reasons-critical-race-theo...

Critical race/gender theory is all about power dynamics permeating every interaction. You might think that's exhausting, I certainly do, but that's what we're dealing with here.

dvtrn 6y ago

You might think that's exhausting, I certainly do Why? Is there something about CRT that threatens your means and way of living, or is it forcing a type of introspection about what minorities have and continue to go through in various forms and machinations you'd rather not entertain?

free_rms 6y ago
This right here. The veiled accusation and attempt to put me on the back foot in a power dynamics debate. That's what I find exhausting. Anyways I was just explaining to OP that the situation was already about that stuff before any response was considered.
- dvtrn 6y ago
  It wasn't veiled at all, it was a bald-faced ask, why dodge it? If the veiled accusations that some people utilize in the name of CRT is bothersome, why wouldn't you call THAT out from the very start? That tactic is not a problem inherent to CRT, that tactic is a problem with how people deploy and weaponize CRT. In the absence of anything else, yes, people are going to make assumptions.
  - free_rms 6y ago
    But you're doing the thing. The tactic that you agree is bothersome. Edit: I agree that one could incorporate some CRT into their worldview without becoming insufferable, in fact I think lots of normal people have without calling it that. That said, there are a lot of true believers out there, that's who I was talking about.
    - dvtrn 6y ago
      okay, well since the comment I initially replied to has been edited entirely post hoc to represent an entirely different tenor than what you originally replied with, I guess I need to edit mine as well: No, I'm not doing that right now, I am trying to understand your framing of CRT and where your issues lie with it. It would seem those issues lie with how certain people argue CRT, not CRT itself. Thank you for clarifying that.
      - free_rms 6y ago
        I guess my beef is, how come everything is game for criticism EXCEPT the critical theorists? Why can't we analyze their power incentives as well?
        dvtrn 6y ago
        What stands in your way other than being faced with possible objections to, and responses in kind to whatever your critiques may be? Objections and responses that-I would boldly say-are not stopping you from making said critiques, or rather, they hold no enforceable power that precludes you or anyone from making rebuttals of your own. They are just that, objections and responses. Which you are free to entertain or not, attempt to unpack and understand or not, respond to with better critiques, objections, observations and rebuttals of your own...or not. But you're not being prevented from making them by anyone or anything short of I suppose committing some sort of crime in order to make that point (that's just an extreme example to stretch the metaphor). This is the form and function of debate, it is a crucible that boils away impurities of all manner and dialect (for anyone who may be thinking they've heard this one before, yes, I absolutely stole this from an episode of Star Trek). If you feel you are being stopped from doing any of this, might I ask why and how you have been completely prevented and kept from expressing yourself?
        free_rms 6y ago
        Alright, here's my substantive criticism of how CRT affects various groups in practice (not doxxing my membership in any of these groups): Elite coastal white: Absolutely not threatened. Beneficiary of the system and knows how to navigate all of the social codes. Less elite or poor white: Takes the bullet that was aimed at the elite white. Asian: Scores way too high on tests for their % of the population and this is a problem for a worldview that cares about what % of college slots go to which races Professional class black or latin: Does great, huge beneficiary of CRT activism Working class black or latin: Invisible and accidentally hurt despite good intentions. CRT proponents tried to pass a referendum legalizing racial discrimination in hiring in California this year, which would have helped professional class POC and probably hurt this class. Fortunately it failed. EDIT: I removed some cattiness above. Not trying to pull the rug out from under you but I'm rate-limited and wanted to focus on my actual points. I don't think I'm a caricature of 'unwoke' person who never thought about or dealt with these things before.
s4n1ty 6y ago
If you're unfamiliar with criticisms of critical race theory then you might find this useful: https://newdiscourses.com/2020/06/reasons-critical-race-theory-terrible-dealing-racism/ https://newdiscourses.com/2020/06/reasons-critical-race-theo...