5 ms·

Well, the company is in slightly different position from the manager. They can abrogate the manager's authority, but that would permanently undermine that indiv

by nickff 6y ago

Well, the company is in slightly different position from the manager. They can abrogate the manager's authority, but that would permanently undermine that individual. On the other hand, they can also choose to accept the subordinate's resignation. They could try to transfer the subordinate somewhere else, but that's also risky, and wouldn't really address the ultimatum in this case. Accepting a resignation achieves three separate objectives: -resolves the ultimatum -discourages future ultimatums -preserves the status quo ante

saagarjha 6y ago
I think you're coming at the ultimatum from some sort of strange power dynamic perspective, where an employee who successfully gets their ultimatum approved somehow disenfranchises their manager of their authority, enabling future employees to…what? Vie for the managerial position? This has a "crush dissent" kind of vibe. In every employment contract there is a balance of things and employee is willing to do and an employer is willing to provide in exchange. If my boss said that they wouldn't pay me anymore I would rightfully respond with an "ultimatum" of "pay me or I quit". That's the ultimatum they respond to every day by paying me; they look at the balance of things I offer, consider what I provide to the company to be adequate, and then give me the money I ask for. The same is true for any ultimatum: you come to the table with one final negotiation; the negotiation of "do you value me? Then you must provide me this". It's an entirely transactional exchange. Now, ultimatums are general to be discouraged not because they undermine some sort of authority, but because they are a sign that negotiations have broken down on both sides. As a manager, your goal should be to try to reach a compromise far before that point–not only does to hurt your relationship if you don't, even when the ultimatum is "successful" from the point of the employee, but by letting a conflict reach an ultimatum point you're exposing yourself to significant risk and often poor deals. The way to handle an ultimatum is to forestall "pay me x or I quit" with "I'll pay you almost x if you show good performance for the next three months". If you are at the point where the argument is "I'm going to quit" then yes, you may have to carry through with the termination if you think what they provide is less valuable than what they want from you, but you should really be looking at what you did to get to that point instead.
- free_rms 6y ago
  Critical race/gender theory is all about power dynamics permeating every interaction. You might think that's exhausting, I certainly do, but that's what we're dealing with here.
  - dvtrn 6y ago
    You might think that's exhausting, I certainly do Why? Is there something about CRT that threatens your means and way of living, or is it forcing a type of introspection about what minorities have and continue to go through in various forms and machinations you'd rather not entertain?
    - free_rms 6y ago
      This right here. The veiled accusation and attempt to put me on the back foot in a power dynamics debate. That's what I find exhausting. Anyways I was just explaining to OP that the situation was already about that stuff before any response was considered.
      - dvtrn 6y ago
        It wasn't veiled at all, it was a bald-faced ask, why dodge it? If the veiled accusations that some people utilize in the name of CRT is bothersome, why wouldn't you call THAT out from the very start? That tactic is not a problem inherent to CRT, that tactic is a problem with how people deploy and weaponize CRT. In the absence of anything else, yes, people are going to make assumptions.
        free_rms 6y ago
        But you're doing the thing. The tactic that you agree is bothersome. Edit: I agree that one could incorporate some CRT into their worldview without becoming insufferable, in fact I think lots of normal people have without calling it that. That said, there are a lot of true believers out there, that's who I was talking about.

by nickff 6y ago

saagarjha 6y ago

I think you're coming at the ultimatum from some sort of strange power dynamic perspective, where an employee who successfully gets their ultimatum approved somehow disenfranchises their manager of their authority, enabling future employees to…what? Vie for the managerial position? This has a "crush dissent" kind of vibe. In every employment contract there is a balance of things and employee is willing to do and an employer is willing to provide in exchange. If my boss said that they wouldn't pay me anymore I would rightfully respond with an "ultimatum" of "pay me or I quit". That's the ultimatum they respond to every day by paying me; they look at the balance of things I offer, consider what I provide to the company to be adequate, and then give me the money I ask for. The same is true for any ultimatum: you come to the table with one final negotiation; the negotiation of "do you value me? Then you must provide me this". It's an entirely transactional exchange. Now, ultimatums are general to be discouraged not because they undermine some sort of authority, but because they are a sign that negotiations have broken down on both sides. As a manager, your goal should be to try to reach a compromise far before that point–not only does to hurt your relationship if you don't, even when the ultimatum is "successful" from the point of the employee, but by letting a conflict reach an ultimatum point you're exposing yourself to significant risk and often poor deals. The way to handle an ultimatum is to forestall "pay me x or I quit" with "I'll pay you almost x if you show good performance for the next three months". If you are at the point where the argument is "I'm going to quit" then yes, you may have to carry through with the termination if you think what they provide is less valuable than what they want from you, but you should really be looking at what you did to get to that point instead.

free_rms 6y ago
Critical race/gender theory is all about power dynamics permeating every interaction. You might think that's exhausting, I certainly do, but that's what we're dealing with here.
- dvtrn 6y ago
  You might think that's exhausting, I certainly do Why? Is there something about CRT that threatens your means and way of living, or is it forcing a type of introspection about what minorities have and continue to go through in various forms and machinations you'd rather not entertain?
  - free_rms 6y ago
    This right here. The veiled accusation and attempt to put me on the back foot in a power dynamics debate. That's what I find exhausting. Anyways I was just explaining to OP that the situation was already about that stuff before any response was considered.
    - dvtrn 6y ago
      It wasn't veiled at all, it was a bald-faced ask, why dodge it? If the veiled accusations that some people utilize in the name of CRT is bothersome, why wouldn't you call THAT out from the very start? That tactic is not a problem inherent to CRT, that tactic is a problem with how people deploy and weaponize CRT. In the absence of anything else, yes, people are going to make assumptions.
      - free_rms 6y ago
        But you're doing the thing. The tactic that you agree is bothersome. Edit: I agree that one could incorporate some CRT into their worldview without becoming insufferable, in fact I think lots of normal people have without calling it that. That said, there are a lot of true believers out there, that's who I was talking about.