19 ms·

the labor theory of value isn't a theory of morality. if you don't believe that exploitation is wrong, then you're free to use the LTV to maximize exploitation,

by smhost 6y ago

the labor theory of value isn't a theory of morality. if you don't believe that exploitation is wrong, then you're free to use the LTV to maximize exploitation, which is what many ex-communists have done to great success in places like south korea, vietnam, and china.

UK-Al05 6y ago
LTV drawn to its logical conclusion leads to exploitation of every worker almost by definition. It is the core of the market economics = exploitation argument. Profit is simply value extracted from workers. As opposed to the arbitrage of the subjective preferences of multiple actors. The modern interpretation of how value can just appear. Those workers who got a return on capital delayed consumption now, for more consumption later. That's a preference. I don't think that's a bad thing. But you can see how over a long time it can generate massive inequality. But I don't think the fundamental mechanisms of how this occured is particularly exploitive. Where as LTV pretty much just says it your just stealing value.
- ruined 6y ago
  yes, one might make a moral judgement that exploitation is a tendency of capitalism, if one believes that people who control more capital have structural power over those who control less or no capital, thus narrowing the viable subjective preferences in a way that is "bad". but ltv on its own provides no such judgement, it simply describes the material relationship.
  - UK-Al05 6y ago
    LTV on its own shows very little predictive value in the real world. Which is why it isn't used. Marginal economics explains and models a lot things we see in reality. I'm much more likely to believe a model that has predictive ability.
    - freshhawk 6y ago
      Leaning on the predictive power of "the dismal science" isn't a strong base to argue from.
    - confidantlake 6y ago
      I agree with that predictive ability is important but I have seen no evidence that marginal economics has predictive ability. You yourself even say it "explains and models" which is not the same as predicts.

by smhost 6y ago

UK-Al05 6y ago

LTV drawn to its logical conclusion leads to exploitation of every worker almost by definition. It is the core of the market economics = exploitation argument. Profit is simply value extracted from workers. As opposed to the arbitrage of the subjective preferences of multiple actors. The modern interpretation of how value can just appear. Those workers who got a return on capital delayed consumption now, for more consumption later. That's a preference. I don't think that's a bad thing. But you can see how over a long time it can generate massive inequality. But I don't think the fundamental mechanisms of how this occured is particularly exploitive. Where as LTV pretty much just says it your just stealing value.

ruined 6y ago
yes, one might make a moral judgement that exploitation is a tendency of capitalism, if one believes that people who control more capital have structural power over those who control less or no capital, thus narrowing the viable subjective preferences in a way that is "bad". but ltv on its own provides no such judgement, it simply describes the material relationship.
- UK-Al05 6y ago
  LTV on its own shows very little predictive value in the real world. Which is why it isn't used. Marginal economics explains and models a lot things we see in reality. I'm much more likely to believe a model that has predictive ability.
  - freshhawk 6y ago
    Leaning on the predictive power of "the dismal science" isn't a strong base to argue from.
  - confidantlake 6y ago
    I agree with that predictive ability is important but I have seen no evidence that marginal economics has predictive ability. You yourself even say it "explains and models" which is not the same as predicts.