4 ms·

To be fair Hsieh’s story doesn’t sound like it has anything to do with “pressures of being a founder”. I mean his “work 100 hour weeks to achieve success” days

by tempsy 6y ago

To be fair Hsieh’s story doesn’t sound like it has anything to do with “pressures of being a founder”. I mean his “work 100 hour weeks to achieve success” days were long over. He was basically quasi-retired, and clearly had been checked out of his Zappos management role for some time. This is much more a story of someone who has already achieved all the success in the world and seemed to turn to drugs as many do as an escape or search for greater meaning in his life to his detriment.

floatingatoll 6y ago
As I tried to note in the final paragraph (I would clarify in hindsight), I'm not trying to say exactly why Hsieh fell — I'm trying to warn others who might fall in a predictable (to me) manner, by drawing parallels to elements that are familiar from Hsieh's story. Two or three of those I've seen fall are exact fits for "I went from working hundred hour weeks to quasi-retirement", and they did not treat their burnout with the respect and healing I feel it requires. When they took away the overwork, the unhealed burnout smoldered and eventually caught fire and burned them, weeks or months later. Is this what took down Hsieh? I haven't a clue, and it's unlikely I'll ever know, and I certainly don't intend to bother anyone to learn more about his circumstance. His friends are having a bad enough time as it is and I empathize too strongly to press for more knowledge. Is Hsieh's story familiar from personal experience? Yes, absolutely. In the couple of press articles I've read, and a couple of quotes from a letter from a friend to him in one of them, there is certainly material enough to remind me of others I've known who worked themselves to the bone, sold it all and rested, and then a while later (a few months to a couple years) self-destructed.
- tempsy 6y ago
  Ok but I don’t think it had anything to do with being burnt out at any point either due to founder stress. He had always been into the rave scene. His entire instagram page was like one big love letter to Burning Man. He had a new tour titled the “Rabbit Hole.” I think clearly there was some interest on his part with psychedelics or dissociatives that went too far, and made worse by surrounding himself with people too afraid to confront him about it. Perhaps his story his relatable from afar but to paint this as something to do with “getting over burn out from overwork” is not what I’m seeing when I read this piece.
  - floatingatoll 6y ago
    I do not intend to paint Hsieh's story as "overwork led to burnout led to self-destruction". I am absolutely using the parallels I perceive to tell a different story that I hope will help at least one other avoid what I've seen happen to so many.
    - j4yav 6y ago
      I think that leading with this is what's causing the confusion of what your intent was: > Each exhibited the same pattern of awesome-burnout-intoxicate-destruction as Hsieh is described as having here
      - floatingatoll 6y ago
        Makes sense, but there’s little I can do about it now.
pontifier 6y ago
I understand that he poured a lot of money into the Las Vegas startup ecosystem in an attempt to mimic the success of Silicon Valley and had borrowed some concepts from what was happening in with Silicon Slopes. I got the impression that he was a lone Atlas pushing a rock up a hill in Vegas, and the startup ecosystem he envisioned never really caught on. It doesn't surprise me that he moved to Utah at the end. They seemed to be accomplishing what he had been trying to do alone. I didn't like the way Utah was moving though, and I left right before he got there.
- donjigweed 6y ago
  > I didn't like the way Utah was moving though Can you elaborate on this if you can spare the time? Genuinely curious...
  - pontifier 6y ago
    I lived in Provo. I saw John Curtis run several large businesses out, and most relocated north. Then he became a representative for the whole region. I feel that he is a deeply corrupt individual who makes backdoor deals with his buddies. I also don't trust the judges there. I went to the FBI with evidence of some of the corruption I uncovered, but was told point blank that corruption in Utah was so deeply entrenched that there was very little they could do about it. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of good people there. There are also some very convincing liars and slick talking con artists. (There is a reason why Utah is home to so many sales based companies) I started to feel like there was no room to breathe there. Real estate prices were skyrocketing, and I couldn't see a path forward for several of my projects that required large spaces. There was a huge influx of venture capital that was supporting these inflated prices on real estate and talent, but I never wanted to go that route, so I was priced out. I fund everything I do with family money, and keep 100% ownership. TL;DR: It's hard to get ahead when you feel the game is rigged.

by tempsy 6y ago

floatingatoll 6y ago

As I tried to note in the final paragraph (I would clarify in hindsight), I'm not trying to say exactly why Hsieh fell — I'm trying to warn others who might fall in a predictable (to me) manner, by drawing parallels to elements that are familiar from Hsieh's story. Two or three of those I've seen fall are exact fits for "I went from working hundred hour weeks to quasi-retirement", and they did not treat their burnout with the respect and healing I feel it requires. When they took away the overwork, the unhealed burnout smoldered and eventually caught fire and burned them, weeks or months later. Is this what took down Hsieh? I haven't a clue, and it's unlikely I'll ever know, and I certainly don't intend to bother anyone to learn more about his circumstance. His friends are having a bad enough time as it is and I empathize too strongly to press for more knowledge. Is Hsieh's story familiar from personal experience? Yes, absolutely. In the couple of press articles I've read, and a couple of quotes from a letter from a friend to him in one of them, there is certainly material enough to remind me of others I've known who worked themselves to the bone, sold it all and rested, and then a while later (a few months to a couple years) self-destructed.

tempsy 6y ago
Ok but I don’t think it had anything to do with being burnt out at any point either due to founder stress. He had always been into the rave scene. His entire instagram page was like one big love letter to Burning Man. He had a new tour titled the “Rabbit Hole.” I think clearly there was some interest on his part with psychedelics or dissociatives that went too far, and made worse by surrounding himself with people too afraid to confront him about it. Perhaps his story his relatable from afar but to paint this as something to do with “getting over burn out from overwork” is not what I’m seeing when I read this piece.
- floatingatoll 6y ago
  I do not intend to paint Hsieh's story as "overwork led to burnout led to self-destruction". I am absolutely using the parallels I perceive to tell a different story that I hope will help at least one other avoid what I've seen happen to so many.
  - j4yav 6y ago
    I think that leading with this is what's causing the confusion of what your intent was: > Each exhibited the same pattern of awesome-burnout-intoxicate-destruction as Hsieh is described as having here
    - floatingatoll 6y ago
      Makes sense, but there’s little I can do about it now.

pontifier 6y ago

I understand that he poured a lot of money into the Las Vegas startup ecosystem in an attempt to mimic the success of Silicon Valley and had borrowed some concepts from what was happening in with Silicon Slopes. I got the impression that he was a lone Atlas pushing a rock up a hill in Vegas, and the startup ecosystem he envisioned never really caught on. It doesn't surprise me that he moved to Utah at the end. They seemed to be accomplishing what he had been trying to do alone. I didn't like the way Utah was moving though, and I left right before he got there.

donjigweed 6y ago
> I didn't like the way Utah was moving though Can you elaborate on this if you can spare the time? Genuinely curious...
- pontifier 6y ago
  I lived in Provo. I saw John Curtis run several large businesses out, and most relocated north. Then he became a representative for the whole region. I feel that he is a deeply corrupt individual who makes backdoor deals with his buddies. I also don't trust the judges there. I went to the FBI with evidence of some of the corruption I uncovered, but was told point blank that corruption in Utah was so deeply entrenched that there was very little they could do about it. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of good people there. There are also some very convincing liars and slick talking con artists. (There is a reason why Utah is home to so many sales based companies) I started to feel like there was no room to breathe there. Real estate prices were skyrocketing, and I couldn't see a path forward for several of my projects that required large spaces. There was a huge influx of venture capital that was supporting these inflated prices on real estate and talent, but I never wanted to go that route, so I was priced out. I fund everything I do with family money, and keep 100% ownership. TL;DR: It's hard to get ahead when you feel the game is rigged.