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You guys acting like democratic government has not yet been invented. It's not like alternatives to billionaires owning the planet doesn't exist. Just America

You guys acting like democratic government has not yet been invented. It's not like alternatives to billionaires owning the planet doesn't exist. Just America seems to be fairly resistant to the idea of public good. And the other consideration is how the money of billionaires is actively used to make everyone else's lives worse, either through manipulating markets and commodities, raising our rent, or literally polluting and destroying the planet. Or buying media and brain washing the population with their crazy ideologies. These are all highly negative events that come from a small group of people having control of too many resources. No one yet has responded to me why it's such a great idea for billionaires to exist. I wonder if an argument could even be made that didn't even a personal fantasy/wish fulfillment scenario.

buzzerbetrayed 6y ago
> No one yet has responded to me why it's such a great idea for billionaires to exist. I wonder if an argument could even be made that didn't even a personal fantasy/wish fulfillment scenario. K, here's one, whether or not you accept it. I don't think the world would have SpaceX or Tesla were it not for the existence of billionaires. Elon Musk already had a billion before founding/buying these companies. If he had "maxed out" and couldn't make any more money, I think there is a good chance he wouldn't have taken risks on these companies. I think we are better off with the existence of companies like these. Even if you don't like Tesla or SpaceX, these are just examples. There are a lot of other companies that would not exist as well, especially if you consider the potential scarcity of funding in this scenario. And without their existence we would all be worse off. There are downsides to having billionaires too, but it's pretty disingenuous to pretend there aren't upsides as well.
- chillwaves 6y ago
  It's a mistake to conflate the work of entire companies with one man, and I strongly disagree about the state of progress in America if billionaires did not exist. Someone else would have taken Musk's place. There is no inherent quality to billionaires that make them valuable outside of their wealth. > especially if you consider the potential scarcity of funding in this scenario. how is this an argument? I assume banks still exist in this world without billionaires?
  - refurb 6y ago
    Someone else would have taken his place? You mean another billionaire? But the thought experiment is there would be no billionaires.
    - chillwaves 6y ago
      Why would a billionaire by necessary? As mentioned, there are other vehicles to obtain financing. Secondly, when billionaires disappear, their wealth doesn't disappear with them. Not sure what you are asking.
      - refurb 6y ago
        Because at least for big moonshot ideas, it's much easier for one billionaire to bankroll some crazy idea everyone else thinks is a waste of money. And even if you could gather the funding, you now have to keep a few dozen investors happy versus just pursuing your idea however you want. And sure the money doesn't disappear, but would you really expect an Amazon warehouse worker who now makes $70k instead of $35k to be investing in highly risky ventures? I mean, they wouldn't even qualify to invest.
- 8note 6y ago
  When you say we would not have Tesla or SpaceX, do you just mean the brand? Or that we would not have reusable rockets and electric cars? That seems unlikely, considering the USSR produced the space launches, and electric cars existed before Tesla. Without billionaires, you'd also lose the Koch's making it hard to move away from fossil fuels, which I think would make electric cars significantly easier, rather than harder If you just mean that we won't have those brand names, should I care? It's just a name
- tomjohnneill 6y ago
  He wasn't a billionaire when he started SpaceX: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk#:~:text=In%20October%202002%2C%20PayPal%20was,Musk%20received%20US%24165%20million https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk#:~:text=In%20October....

buzzerbetrayed 6y ago

> No one yet has responded to me why it's such a great idea for billionaires to exist. I wonder if an argument could even be made that didn't even a personal fantasy/wish fulfillment scenario. K, here's one, whether or not you accept it. I don't think the world would have SpaceX or Tesla were it not for the existence of billionaires. Elon Musk already had a billion before founding/buying these companies. If he had "maxed out" and couldn't make any more money, I think there is a good chance he wouldn't have taken risks on these companies. I think we are better off with the existence of companies like these. Even if you don't like Tesla or SpaceX, these are just examples. There are a lot of other companies that would not exist as well, especially if you consider the potential scarcity of funding in this scenario. And without their existence we would all be worse off. There are downsides to having billionaires too, but it's pretty disingenuous to pretend there aren't upsides as well.

chillwaves 6y ago
It's a mistake to conflate the work of entire companies with one man, and I strongly disagree about the state of progress in America if billionaires did not exist. Someone else would have taken Musk's place. There is no inherent quality to billionaires that make them valuable outside of their wealth. > especially if you consider the potential scarcity of funding in this scenario. how is this an argument? I assume banks still exist in this world without billionaires?
- refurb 6y ago
  Someone else would have taken his place? You mean another billionaire? But the thought experiment is there would be no billionaires.
  - chillwaves 6y ago
    Why would a billionaire by necessary? As mentioned, there are other vehicles to obtain financing. Secondly, when billionaires disappear, their wealth doesn't disappear with them. Not sure what you are asking.
    - refurb 6y ago
      Because at least for big moonshot ideas, it's much easier for one billionaire to bankroll some crazy idea everyone else thinks is a waste of money. And even if you could gather the funding, you now have to keep a few dozen investors happy versus just pursuing your idea however you want. And sure the money doesn't disappear, but would you really expect an Amazon warehouse worker who now makes $70k instead of $35k to be investing in highly risky ventures? I mean, they wouldn't even qualify to invest.
8note 6y ago
When you say we would not have Tesla or SpaceX, do you just mean the brand? Or that we would not have reusable rockets and electric cars? That seems unlikely, considering the USSR produced the space launches, and electric cars existed before Tesla. Without billionaires, you'd also lose the Koch's making it hard to move away from fossil fuels, which I think would make electric cars significantly easier, rather than harder If you just mean that we won't have those brand names, should I care? It's just a name
tomjohnneill 6y ago
He wasn't a billionaire when he started SpaceX: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk#:~:text=In%20October%202002%2C%20PayPal%20was,Musk%20received%20US%24165%20million https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk#:~:text=In%20October....