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I have to complain for a little bit about the infantilism happening right now in America, especially with regards to vaccines. Likely I'll have two choices for

I have to complain for a little bit about the infantilism happening right now in America, especially with regards to vaccines. Likely I'll have two choices for a vaccine type, an adenovirus type from astrazeneca, or one of the mRNA choices. Well, time to do some research and find the one that's best for me and my family, right? I tried googling a little bit about the various side effects for these vaccines to make an informed decision, and it's extremely hard to find any real documentation about short term and long term risks with these vaccines. They're basically scrubbed from the internet. For example, the CDC page[1] for mRNA vaccines talk only of the benefits and not at all of any risks. The CDC page titled "Different Covid 19 vaccines" has pretty much no information at all[2]. One of the only places I can find good information is the University of Cambridge PHG foundation[3]. They list "benefits" and then "important challenges", as if even muttering the word "risks" will scare people away. It seems everyone is in a panic that people are too stupid to act in their own self interest and get a vaccine, and therefore we have to coddle them or (worse) mind-hack them into acting differently. It's all so tiresome. 1. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/hcp/mrna-vaccine-basics.html https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/hcp/mrna-vaccine-basic... 2. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different... 3. https://www.phgfoundation.org/briefing/rna-vaccines https://www.phgfoundation.org/briefing/rna-vaccines

fabian2k 6y ago
With the exception of the UK, none of the vaccines are officially approved yet. So the official information on potential side effects simply does not exist yet. The known side effects should be listed in the instructions once the vaccine is approved.
Exmoor 6y ago
I'm struggling to the find the primary source for the statistics, but they've basically been the same short-term side-effects as you might get from a flu shot, but at slightly higher rates and and severity: https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/11/fever-aches-pfizer-moderna-jabs-aren-t-dangerous-may-be-intense-some https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/11/fever-aches-pfizer-m... > The independent board that conducted the interim analysis of Moderna’s huge trial found that severe side effects included fatigue in 9.7% of participants, muscle pain in 8.9%, joint pain in 5.2%, and headache in 4.5%. For the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine, the numbers were lower: Severe side effects included fatigue (3.8%) and headache (2%). Typically these will be included on the official government sites once the vaccine is approved, so we should see it shortly. As for long-term side-effects, none have been found. Long-term side effects (so things that may occur within a month or two of the vaccine, but last a long time) are extremely rare. You can really only say there have likely they've occurred in two different vaccines in the last 50 years, and even those were a tiny, tiny percentage (Like 0.001%) of the people vaccinated. Keep in mind billions of vaccines are given annually. Long-term effects the are delayed in occurring past two months have never been found in the entire history of vaccines, so you won't find any data on it.
- generalizations 6y ago
  Thing is, you're leaving out the fact that mRNA vaccines are very different from vaccines we've used in the past. From wikipedia: > Given the novel nature of the mechanism of action of RNA vaccines, and their drug delivery vehicles, little is known about the medium and longer-term side effects. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA_vaccines https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA_vaccines
jsmith45 6y ago
A large part of the issue with understanding the risks of mRNA vaccines is that they have literally never been done before. On the other hand, some of the potential risks can be partially analyzed in terms of general principles. mRNA vaccines consist of messenger RNA combined with some form of carrier (vector) to allow it to enter cells (most cells do not normally let external RNA enter them). One in a cell, the mRNA will occasionally get picked up by a ribosome and used to make the protein it specifies. For mRNA viruses, this is usually a small portion of the viral shell that is distinct enough for the body to use to target the virus (antigen). mRNA has relative short half-lives inside cells on the order of a few minutes to a day or so. (Larger sequences appear to generally have shorter half lives.) Thus it is not considered likely that the mRNA itself will be able to have any long term negative effects, since it will fairly rapidly get broken down in the body. Once the mRNA is gone, the cells will cease producing the protein in question. Some Predictable Risks: 1. Unwanted effects of the carrier module. 2. the mRNA directly interacts with things in an undesirable way. (Either by binding to some other important RNA causing said other RNA to not function, or by the mRNA folding itself into some functional shape that harms things). 3. The resulting protein has some undesirable interactions with the body. 4. The resulting protein could misfold in a way such that it has undesirable interactions with the body. Even here, the effects are likely short term, although there exist ways it could become a long term effect. One theoretical way that could manifest is that it triggers misfolding in some unrelated protein into a prion configuration, thereby triggering a prion disease. 5. The normal risks associated with the activation of the bodies immune system. These are pretty much all possible with any vaccine, but specific attributes of a specific vaccine could make certain immune system risks more or less likely. 6. Other typical risks like contaminants in the vaccine. All told, I personally suspect that in general the risks from mRNA vaccines will be lower than live or deactivated virus vaccines, including the adenovirus vaccine approach of putting the +ssRNA for the antigen in an unrelated virus that has been made unable to replicate. But obviously the risks of any specific vaccine can vary versus other vaccines of the same basic type.

fabian2k 6y ago

With the exception of the UK, none of the vaccines are officially approved yet. So the official information on potential side effects simply does not exist yet. The known side effects should be listed in the instructions once the vaccine is approved.

Exmoor 6y ago

I'm struggling to the find the primary source for the statistics, but they've basically been the same short-term side-effects as you might get from a flu shot, but at slightly higher rates and and severity: https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/11/fever-aches-pfizer-moderna-jabs-aren-t-dangerous-may-be-intense-some https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/11/fever-aches-pfizer-m... > The independent board that conducted the interim analysis of Moderna’s huge trial found that severe side effects included fatigue in 9.7% of participants, muscle pain in 8.9%, joint pain in 5.2%, and headache in 4.5%. For the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine, the numbers were lower: Severe side effects included fatigue (3.8%) and headache (2%). Typically these will be included on the official government sites once the vaccine is approved, so we should see it shortly. As for long-term side-effects, none have been found. Long-term side effects (so things that may occur within a month or two of the vaccine, but last a long time) are extremely rare. You can really only say there have likely they've occurred in two different vaccines in the last 50 years, and even those were a tiny, tiny percentage (Like 0.001%) of the people vaccinated. Keep in mind billions of vaccines are given annually. Long-term effects the are delayed in occurring past two months have never been found in the entire history of vaccines, so you won't find any data on it.

generalizations 6y ago
Thing is, you're leaving out the fact that mRNA vaccines are very different from vaccines we've used in the past. From wikipedia: > Given the novel nature of the mechanism of action of RNA vaccines, and their drug delivery vehicles, little is known about the medium and longer-term side effects. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA_vaccines https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA_vaccines

jsmith45 6y ago

A large part of the issue with understanding the risks of mRNA vaccines is that they have literally never been done before. On the other hand, some of the potential risks can be partially analyzed in terms of general principles. mRNA vaccines consist of messenger RNA combined with some form of carrier (vector) to allow it to enter cells (most cells do not normally let external RNA enter them). One in a cell, the mRNA will occasionally get picked up by a ribosome and used to make the protein it specifies. For mRNA viruses, this is usually a small portion of the viral shell that is distinct enough for the body to use to target the virus (antigen). mRNA has relative short half-lives inside cells on the order of a few minutes to a day or so. (Larger sequences appear to generally have shorter half lives.) Thus it is not considered likely that the mRNA itself will be able to have any long term negative effects, since it will fairly rapidly get broken down in the body. Once the mRNA is gone, the cells will cease producing the protein in question. Some Predictable Risks: 1. Unwanted effects of the carrier module. 2. the mRNA directly interacts with things in an undesirable way. (Either by binding to some other important RNA causing said other RNA to not function, or by the mRNA folding itself into some functional shape that harms things). 3. The resulting protein has some undesirable interactions with the body. 4. The resulting protein could misfold in a way such that it has undesirable interactions with the body. Even here, the effects are likely short term, although there exist ways it could become a long term effect. One theoretical way that could manifest is that it triggers misfolding in some unrelated protein into a prion configuration, thereby triggering a prion disease. 5. The normal risks associated with the activation of the bodies immune system. These are pretty much all possible with any vaccine, but specific attributes of a specific vaccine could make certain immune system risks more or less likely. 6. Other typical risks like contaminants in the vaccine. All told, I personally suspect that in general the risks from mRNA vaccines will be lower than live or deactivated virus vaccines, including the adenovirus vaccine approach of putting the +ssRNA for the antigen in an unrelated virus that has been made unable to replicate. But obviously the risks of any specific vaccine can vary versus other vaccines of the same basic type.