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You're being downvoted without comment, the implication being that calling the safety into question is heresy and that all vaccines are 100% free of side effect

by doitLP 6y ago

You're being downvoted without comment, the implication being that calling the safety into question is heresy and that all vaccines are 100% free of side effects. I am NOT an anti-vaxxer by any means so hold your fire, you who downvote. When we don't admit of nuance it makes us just as dogmatically blind as the anti-vaxxers. I think the framing here is really: "who cares what the side effects are, anything in service of a cure". That's fine and all things considered I agree with it. But that's what it is. There very well could be some long-term ill effects. To deny it is ignorant at best, dishonest at worst. There's a reason why https://vaers.hhs.gov https://vaers.hhs.gov exists for example. Have some intellectual honesty and we'll make greater strides in getting more people vaccinated in the long run.

bserge 6y ago
The article reads more like "brace yourselves, morons are coming". And I understand where this is coming from. But having had absolutely terrible experience with doctors first hand, I just don't like how people's concerns are dismissed. Take an ibuprofen, you'll be fine. And I get it, they have to deal with a lot of people, all with their own opinions, many of which are indeed wrong. But that results in a rather sizeable minority of people who aren't getting the care they need. And worse, they can't just go and do something about it on their own, even if they take full responsibility, everything is tightly controlled. Billions of people will receive the vaccine. I am quite sure there will be real side effects in a sizeable number of people (I hope I'm wrong, really). And I have no doubt that in many parts of the world, they'll be dismissed, ridiculed and laughed at. These otherwise normal people are marginalized and then join the more radical movements as they try to make sense of everything. I've been saying we need public funded PSA's against conspiracy theories, and not just dry science talk. Address all the points the conspiracists make, it may not change the minds of the hardcore believers, but it will help the "moderates" not fall deeper into the hole.
- wavepruner 6y ago
  "And I get it, they have to deal with a lot of people, all with their own opinions, many of which are indeed wrong." This is a great point, but it's important to keep in mind that many medical professionals INSIST that you get your healthcare from them. If you're going to force people to obtain their healthcare through the system you run, then you are obligated to address all their concerns. But this is impossible. That is why medical freedom is so important. Medical freedom as in the ability to choose your own insurance, decline medical treatments, or pay out of pocket for whatever test or treatment you desire.
  - bserge 6y ago
    That's exactly what I meant with "And worse, they can't just go and do something about it on their own, even if they take full responsibility, everything is tightly controlled."

by doitLP 6y ago

bserge 6y ago

The article reads more like "brace yourselves, morons are coming". And I understand where this is coming from. But having had absolutely terrible experience with doctors first hand, I just don't like how people's concerns are dismissed. Take an ibuprofen, you'll be fine. And I get it, they have to deal with a lot of people, all with their own opinions, many of which are indeed wrong. But that results in a rather sizeable minority of people who aren't getting the care they need. And worse, they can't just go and do something about it on their own, even if they take full responsibility, everything is tightly controlled. Billions of people will receive the vaccine. I am quite sure there will be real side effects in a sizeable number of people (I hope I'm wrong, really). And I have no doubt that in many parts of the world, they'll be dismissed, ridiculed and laughed at. These otherwise normal people are marginalized and then join the more radical movements as they try to make sense of everything. I've been saying we need public funded PSA's against conspiracy theories, and not just dry science talk. Address all the points the conspiracists make, it may not change the minds of the hardcore believers, but it will help the "moderates" not fall deeper into the hole.

wavepruner 6y ago
"And I get it, they have to deal with a lot of people, all with their own opinions, many of which are indeed wrong." This is a great point, but it's important to keep in mind that many medical professionals INSIST that you get your healthcare from them. If you're going to force people to obtain their healthcare through the system you run, then you are obligated to address all their concerns. But this is impossible. That is why medical freedom is so important. Medical freedom as in the ability to choose your own insurance, decline medical treatments, or pay out of pocket for whatever test or treatment you desire.
- bserge 6y ago
  That's exactly what I meant with "And worse, they can't just go and do something about it on their own, even if they take full responsibility, everything is tightly controlled."